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Post by mikael on Nov 6, 2019 0:58:48 GMT
In a morning television program there was a reportage on the car park of the Imperial Household (of Japan). (A "mixed bag" including, among other, a dated Rolls Royce and an brand new, custom-made, one-of-a-kind Toyota cabriolet. Kind of interesting, actually.) Special attention was paid to four sidecar motorcycles - two with the sidecar on the left side and two with it on the right side - that are used in parades. It made me think about sidecar motorcycle racing (of course ;-) ). It's not much one hears about it nowadays - one has to search for it, it seems. I wonder what you think about this form of racing? I remember being fascinated by Rolf Biland's creations in the late 70's - they actually got a good deal of attention in "general" motor racing magazines (and in those days I also bought the German magazine "Das Motorrad" for my pocket (newspaper delivery) money). Of course Biland went a step too far; those creations had nothing to do with motor cycles, except for the engine - they really were small formula-type racing cars. One of Rolf Biland's creations where the "rider" (driver) sits like in a formula car. Another one, where the passenger is seated. Going back a few years more, there was a compound track near to where I grew up that featured a speedway long-track (1000m), in addition to a standard (400m) speedway track and a motocross track. In the early 70's (during my first school years) races on the long-track typically also featured a sidecar class. I remember that I always found it fascinating, as they were very fast. Apparently the road racing sidecar World Championship is still alive (but "alive and well", or "still going strong" may be to say a bit too much ...?) One can find footage of recent rounds of the Championship on Youtube (so I reckon it is broadcast on some sport-channel or another ...). It's really very exciting and close racing, but apparently, it's not an out-and-out professional category like MotoGP. And, apparently again, they race in front of nearly-empty grandstands (although the narrator tries to make the viewer believe the opposite :-D ). Not exactly a great draw ... I imagine that status of this sport is a bit like that of Superkart (250cc gear karts): the competition is strong, but not more than a well-organized amateur can be a front runner. Footage from the 2019 race in Assen (YouTube): <Direct YouTube link: click here!>Addendum: A small clip (of rather poor quality) featuring Rolf Biland's 1978 BEO: Direct YouTube link:
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Post by chrisb on Nov 6, 2019 8:36:48 GMT
for me sidecar racing is one of the scariest forms of motorsport known to humans, but they are amazing, especially at the TT, I also think they are either extremely brave or extremely desensitised shall we say,
many years ago I met the Scottish champion Jock Taylor and I just thought these guys are just beyond belief, sadly Jock was tragically killed in 82
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Post by charleselan on Nov 6, 2019 15:23:57 GMT
Mikael, What an interesting post and so much to comment upon. Firstly you are correct about sidecar racing in current times in that it does not appear to be mainstream like in day gone by. It was sadly removed from the GP calendar some years ago no doubt due to there being little interest in it in Spain. To the best of my knowledge I do not remember any top flight Spanish sidecar crews in any time during the history of the sport. At one time about 15 - 20 years ago the outfits were powered by 1000cc motors but they were deemed to be too fast and dangerous so now all are powered by 600cc engines, basically Supersport motorcycle engines. Of course back in the golden age of Grand Prix bike racing they were 500cc powered, although there as an unlimited class which did not have World Championship status. This latter comment brings me to the reference to Rolf Biland's amazing creations which as you say eventually were three wheel race cars as the driver sat in the thing like a car. Eventually these were outlawed but were not at the time against the rules. Before WW11 the motorcycle combinations were racing alongside the Morgan Three Wheeler cars which were either powered by 1000cc JAP engines of Matchless motors. During the 1950's the Morgan's disappeared from racing, but in the early mid 1960's a guy called Owen Greenwood revived the concept on the British racing scene by utilising a Mini front end attached to a single rear wheel (actually two wheels close together), making what could be termed as a Mini Trike. It was very successful over several seasons but I do not think it was well received by the motorcycle fraternity at the time. Below is a picture of Owen Greenwood and passenger Terry Fairbrother and also a good little Pathé News film of the machine.
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Post by Carl on Nov 7, 2019 2:09:13 GMT
In a morning television program there was a reportage on the car park of the Imperial Household (of Japan). (A "mixed bag" including, among other, a dated Rolls Royce and an brand new, custom-made, one-of-a-kind Toyota cabriolet. Kind of interesting, actually.) Special attention was paid to four sidecar motorcycles - two with the sidecar on the left side and two with it on the right side - that are used in parades. It made me think about sidecar motorcycle racing (of course ;-) ). It's not much one hears about it nowadays - one has to search for it, it seems. I wonder what you think about this form of racing? I remember being fascinated by Rolf Biland's creations in the late 70's - they actually got a good deal of attention in "general" motor racing magazines (and in those days I also bought the German magazine "Das Motorrad" for my pocket (newspaper delivery) money). Of course Biland went a step too far; those creations had nothing to do with motor cycles, except for the engine - they really were small formula-type racing cars. One of Rolf Biland's creations where the "rider" (driver) sits like in a formula car. Another one, where the passenger is seated. Going back a few years more, there was a compound track near to where I grew up that featured a speedway long-track (1000m), in addition to a standard (400m) speedway track and a motocross track. In the early 70's (during my first school years) races on the long-track typically also featured a sidecar class. I remember that I always found it fascinating, as they were very fast. Apparently the road racing sidecar World Championship is still alive (but "alive and well", or "still going strong" may be to say a bit too much ...?) One can find footage of recent rounds of the Championship on Youtube (so I reckon it is broadcast on some sport-channel or another ...). It's really very exciting and close racing, but apparently, it's not an out-and-out professional category like MotoGP. And, apparently again, they race in front of nearly-empty grandstands (although the narrator tries to make the viewer believe the opposite :-D ). Not exactly a great draw ... I imagine that status of this sport is a bit like that of Superkart (250cc gear karts): the competition is strong, but not more than a well-organized amateur can be a front runner. Mikael and John Charles,
Sidecars at the Isle of Man TT are impressive by sheer speed on the straights, the well-rehearsed coordination of teammates and the extraordinary efforts to compensate for awkward handling. Because the platform itself cannot lean into curves, the early surrender to centrifugal force means cornering speeds are slow. But they remain popular on the Isle of Man and the third place FIM Championship team of Tom and Ben Birchall are the current cream of the crop.
I have always been fascinated by ordinary motorcycle sidecars, especially ones allowing the passenger to remain warm and dry while the rider is subjected to the whims of nature. This appeals to my appreciation for the stark imbalance of justice the gods sometimes provide. To avoid serious trouble, a warm and dry passenger should of course always pay for meals along the way.
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Post by René on Nov 7, 2019 15:09:43 GMT
I always loved the sidecars, probably because they looked a bit like small race cars! I remember very well the success of Dutch duo Egbert Streuer en Bernard Schnieders, triple World Champions in 1984, 85 and 86! Egbert Streuer en Bernard SchniedersHere's a great clip of them winning at Assen, the one race they didn't win in their championship years but finally managed to win in 1987. They won the TT again in 1991.
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Post by mikael on Nov 9, 2019 9:42:17 GMT
JC,
very interesting to read about to "half Mini" approach to sidecar racing, and to learn that Rolf Biland wasn't the first to approach a car-layout.
It's also interesting to learn about the JAP-Matchless connection. I was not aware of that.
There's the danger that early memories are not really memories but just imagination; yet I do believe I have seen some JAP-powered speedway motorcycles in action in the 70's, at the national level. On the international stage the Czechoslovakian Jawa engine was dominating; so the JAP engines' time was approaching its end, also at the national/amateur level. A bit later (maybe around 1980), the Weslake engine was the one to have, I seem to recall.
The long-stroke JAP engine was really a beautiful piece of machinery - almost like a piece of art.
Mikael
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Post by chrisb on Nov 9, 2019 10:16:43 GMT
interesting Mikael, strangely enough some clips of sidecar racing have suddenly appeared recently on utub, not that I am suggesting Big Brother is watching but....Orwell was not wrong was he? but it just reconfirms my thoughts, that is scary, especially when they were 1000cc monsters,
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Post by charleselan on Nov 9, 2019 13:07:55 GMT
JC, very interesting to read about to "half Mini" approach to sidecar racing, and to learn that Rolf Biland wasn't the first to approach a car-layout. It's also interesting to learn about the JAP-Matchless connection. I was not aware of that. There's the danger that early memories are not really memories but just imagination; yet I do believe I have seen some JAP-powered speedway motorcycles in action in the 70's, at the national level. On the international stage the Czechoslovakian Jawa engine was dominating; so the JAP engines' time was approaching its end, also at the national/amateur level. A bit later (maybe around 1980), the Weslake engine was the one to have, I seem to recall. The long-stroke JAP engine was really a beautiful piece of machinery - almost like a piece of art. Mikael Mikael, The JAP engines in the Morgan Three Wheeler's were big "V" twins, as were I believe the Matchless motors. The latter far less widely used but they did appear in the vehicle. In Speedway the 500cc JAP single cylinder engine was the one of choice for decades in the sport, but obviously age wasn't kind to it and the company had long ceased to exist by the time of its demise. I can remember that when the Jawa engine became popular another engine was also used called an Esso and this found some success in the 1960's. In fact Esso engines also found their way into international Motocross in the 1960's with some European riders fitting them into Rickman Metisse frames. Coming back to the "V" Twin JAP engine I had a feeling this was used in the original Brough Superior SS100 motorcycle and have had to confirm this on the internet, and yes it was being used from 1924 - 1936, following that Brough used the Matchless "V: Twin engine. The Brough Superior SS100 being of course one of the most sought after classic motorcycles around and now fetching stupid money. JC
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Post by mikael on Nov 10, 2019 11:21:07 GMT
JC,
that rang a bell! Yet it seems that it's written as ESO, with one "s". An ESO-powered speedway motorcycle, that I certainly seen (But it's many years ago ... In Denmark, the name was pronounced with a long "e", like "Eeso"; but Danes often get foreign names wrong, so a pronunciation with a double "s" may possibly be more correct ...)
But ESO in motocross, that I was not aware of, so that's really interesting.
The automotive history (of both cars and motorcycles) is really interesting. So many makes/brands came into existence and did well for some time, for then to vanish nonetheless.
Mikael
P.S. According to this link, the first ESO engine started its life as an exact (but probably cheaper) copy of the JAP engine:
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Post by charleselan on Nov 10, 2019 12:56:28 GMT
Mikael,
You are absolutely correct about Eso, I mentioned completely off the top of my head without any research or back-up so apologies for the stupid mistake. You are also more than correct about the pronunciation of the name, it just has to "Eeso" with that elongated "e".
As I type this fortunately close to me in my office are all (or most) of my complete motocross/scrambles programs that I have from the late 1950's. I have just had a quick look through the international meetings programs and found that at the 1964 Moto-Cross des Nations held at Hawkstone Park the Belgian rider Walter Baeten was entered on an Eso-Metisse (I think he may have been related to the great René Baeten a former 1950's champion). Also at the 1966 British Moto-Cross GP at Farleigh Castle an Austrian rider Hans Leitner rode a Eso-Metisse.
Very interesting to hear that the original Eso motor was copied from the old JAP engine.
It is indeed a fascinating story about car and motorcycle history, so many great names now no longer existing.
JC
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Post by Carl on Nov 10, 2019 18:02:19 GMT
JC,
that rang a bell! Yet it seems that it's written as ESO, with one "s". An ESO-powered speedway motorcycle, that I certainly seen (But it's many years ago ... In Denmark, the name was pronounced with a long "e", like "Eeso"; but Danes often get foreign names wrong, so a pronunciation with a double "s" may possibly be more correct ...)
But ESO in motocross, that I was not aware of, so that's really interesting.
The automotive history (of both cars and motorcycles) is really interesting. So many makes/brands came into existence and did well for some time, for then to vanish nonetheless.
Mikael
P.S. According to this link, the first ESO engine started its life as an exact (but probably cheaper) copy of the JAP engine:
Mikael, Great photographs! All three are so beautiful that anyone who's ever ridden would want to get right on and find the nearest hill.
-Carl
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Post by charleselan on Nov 10, 2019 19:31:52 GMT
Although not listed in the program as such the great Bill Nilsson actually rode a Eso powered Metisse in the 1964 MX de Nations. I had a big feeling that it was Bill who had one of those machines and clearly remember seeing him on the red machine that year. In the program he was a late entry replacing an injured rider so no mention of his bike. below is a good picture I have found of him at that event as well as another of Bill and his more personalised Eso machine which i believe was referred to as a B.N. Special.
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Post by mikael on Nov 11, 2019 9:40:27 GMT
Although not listed in the program as such the great Bill Nilsson actually rode a Eso powered Metisse in the 1964 MX de Nations. I had a big feeling that it was Bill who had one of those machines and clearly remember seeing him on the red machine that year. In the program he was a late entry replacing an injured rider so no mention of his bike. below is a good picture I have found of him at that event as well as another of Bill and his more personalised Eso machine which i believe was referred to as a B.N. Special. JC, that's really interesting. Bill Nilsson ("Buffalo Bill") was a very experienced rider at that time, with many years in the absolute top-group of the World; so the ESO must have been a really good engine. I came across this short British Pate film clip from the 1959 British Motocross Grand Prix at Hawkstone Park. The start of the film zooms in on Bill Nilsson preparing for the race. A short and stocky guy, undoubtedly strong as a horse ... The Belgian rider with No. 1 (and with a red Mobil Oil helmet) is probably René Baeten. (I'm not fully sure, but think so). Baeten was one of the very few top riders who actually had a fatal accident in a motocross race. (I just checked that this happened in the following year, in 1960.) P.S. The quality of the movie is surprisingly good! I wonder if it's a restored movie - or if the original quality really was this good. It's movie theater quality. Direct YouTube link:
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Post by charleselan on Nov 11, 2019 21:41:01 GMT
That is a brilliant little film Mikael which I have downloaded some time ago in my archive. I was at that event, a small 8 year old boy who had journeyed all the way from Gloucestershire to Shropshire in the sidecar on my dad's BSA 600cc. That was the year we attended our first Motocross Grand Prix meetings, we also did the 1959 250cc European Championship (not world status then) at Beenham Park near Newbury. Bill Nilsson as is shown in the film was masterful in winning at Hawkstone Park and this little lad could not believe there could be anyone better than the British riders I had been watching for the previous three years. Bill's Cresent motorcycle had an engine that was developed from a British AJS and i only found that out the other day when I chanced upon a Swedish site devoted to Bill Nilsson. It was at this meeting that the older Rickman brother (Derek) was challenging Nilsson quite strongly on then then very new Metisse machine but on that big steep hill (we were watching about two thirds of the way up) he crashed and broke his leg. Almost ironically the 250cc GP was also won by a Swede a young Rolf Tibblin on a Husqvarna. However the memory i still have indelibly etching in my mind from that day was of a great British rider Brian Stonebridge on a factory Greeves machine riding most of the time with one hand and holding his left arm behind his back. He was doing this due to sustaining serious burns in a camp stove accident, and it must have been agony for the poor man as it was blistering hot and more dusty that the Sahara in a storm. Brian sadly died in a car crash a short while later and they had a Memorial meeting to him at Hawkstone Park in early 1960, he was hugely missed and respected in the paddock and by fans. With regard to Bill Nilsson I purchased a DVD back in the early 2000's at the UK Motorcycle Show which featured the 1964 MX GP season and Jeff Smith's Championship on the BSA Victor. there is a good piece in it on Bill and his family etc, I have attached a link to it which I found on Facebook as the one that was on YouTube has been removed quite recently. You mention René Baeten being killed in a MX event which is very rare, the only other top class rider that i can recall dying in a motocross race was a British rider Jerry Scott who was tragically killed I believe in the Lancashire Grand National meeting. Jerry was a very good rider and I believe that in some way Jeff Smith was involved by accident and he was never the same again, which he admitted in later years as it had a profound effect upon him. www.facebook.com/retromxdeutschland.de/videos/1810893522285241/?t=19www.facebook.com/retromxdeutschland.de/videos/1810893522285241/?t=19
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Post by Carl on Nov 11, 2019 23:25:06 GMT
That is a brilliant little film Mikael which I have downloaded some time ago in my archive. I was at that event, a small 8 year old boy who had journeyed all the way from Gloucestershire to Shropshire in the sidecar on my dad's BSA 600cc. That was the year we attended our first Motocross Grand Prix meetings, we also did the 1959 250cc European Championship (not world status then) at Beenham Park near Newbury. Bill Nilsson as is shown in the film was masterful in winning at Hawkstone Park and this little lad could not believe there could be anyone better than the British riders I had been watching for the previous three years. Bill's Cresent motorcycle had an engine that was developed from a British AJS and i only found that out the other day when I chanced upon a Swedish site devoted to Bill Nilsson. It was at this meeting that the older Rickman brother (Derek) was challenging Nilsson quite strongly on then then very new Metisse machine but on that big steep hill (we were watching about two thirds of the way up) he crashed and broke his leg. John Charles, I enjoyed the short video Mikael posted without realizing who were the central stars that day. Theoretically, given the right equipment, a close-up of you and your father might be seen. What a great memory for you!
Cheers, Carl
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