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Post by René on Nov 8, 2017 17:15:05 GMT
Some beautiful footage here of the 1964 Italian Grand Prix. I am sure I am not spoiling the party by telling it was John Surtees in the Ferrari who won.  Ferrari had the third fastest car that year behind Lotus and Brabham but it was consistency and two wins that took Big John to the title. Clark won three races but had too many retirements while Surtees climbed the podium on every race he finished. According to Autosport, 0.422% covered the top four teams (Lotus, Brabham, Ferrari and BRM) in terms of pace difference. Very close for that era. The short film begins with some beautiful 250 LM's and a drag racer!  |
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Post by charleselan on Nov 8, 2017 18:15:10 GMT
A super little film René which is yet another from the John Tate Collection. The support race for GT cars was always quite prestigious at Monza in the early mid 1960's. The UK Concessionaires Ferrari 250LM looks resplendent with its typical light blue stripe and nose band, i have the Fly Kit of that car which looks really pleasing.
1964 was the first year of serious tyre development where widths began to grow quite visibly. Lotus seemed to suffer that year from a lack of top speed, very obviously at Spa and Monza. It was so bad at Spa that Lotus fitted Jim Clark's car with the older narrow wheel rims and tyres, DSJ wrote quite a bit about that at the time. It has been said by some observers that the reason Lotus lacked top end speed was due to the tendency for the cars to run with quite a high pitch from nose to tail, the wind thus getting under the nose cone. Could be some validity in that and no doubt helped by Lotus running such compliant suspension.
What that film does not say is the fact that Jim lost the title in a way that would have fried the brain of some of todays Prima Donnas. He was leading in Mexico the title in the bag, when the car broke, just as it had in 1962. Two WC's lost in an heartbreaking manner.
Just think four WC's on the bounce and he had not even got to 1966, no justice in the world in my opinion. Yet the media types on SKY and UK C4 keep banging on about how great certain other drivers are.
Incidentally Graham Hill could also have won the WC in that race after Jim went out, that is until Lorenzo Bandini collided with him in the second Ferrari, that caused a bit of a satin the media at the time. Lorenzo was actually a real gentleman, a lovely guy, so who knows what happened.
John Charles
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Post by charleselan on Nov 8, 2017 18:42:27 GMT
The great man in what for me is the perfect setting, and i am certain for him also.
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Post by Carl on Nov 8, 2017 21:31:33 GMT
Rene,
Even though your films all seem to end in a Ferrari victory, they are nonetheless wonderful. This one reminded me of my only European Grand Prix, at Monza six years later.
My friend and I had choice seats purchased in advance at the track, to which we later returned on an all day train from London, and that evening in the bar of our Monza hotel, we learned of Jochen Rindt's death by a waiter's crude slash of hand across neck.
The Monza of 1964 seems identical although the cars are noticeably smaller and more attractive than six years hence. We stood (nobody could sit) in the very front of the wonderful pit lane gallery and could look down at Pedro Rodriguez when he made a pit stop. It's since been replaced by glass-enclosed luxury corporate suites. We had the better experience.
The scrawled "Go Home Yank" may have been a British partisan's response to the rudeness of some at Indy at being invaded by advanced rear-engine designs. I doubt whether Gurney, Ginther or Bucknum lost any sleep. Extreme partisans everywhere share a common idiocy.
Colin Chapman's intense focus on other teams' suspension geometries is amusing to see. Nowadays such curiosity would be frustrated by a barricade of mechanics around their team's latest innovation.
John Charles, that is a great photograph of Clark at ease away from the clamorous world beyond his family farm.
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Post by chrisb on Nov 8, 2017 21:50:08 GMT
a lovely film Rene, it was a very interesting GP year 1964, and had shades of 58 thrown in, thankfully without the dreadful los of life,
Incidentally such was the camaraderie I remember reading Graham sent Lorenzo a book on driving lessons for xmas, and one can see the 1964 Mexican GP on You-tube where it all happened and the famous clash,/ crash between Graham and Lorenzo and Dan getting another victory just as Jimmy retired but as JC says this was another time Jimmy had the championship snatched away from him,
the photo's I enjoy of Jimmy are part of an interview in his back-garden with a tartan blanket spread out, there are some amazing photos in the massive but so worth it Jim Clark racing hero by Graham Gauld - in English and German with an emotional introduction by Kurt Ahrens - wonderful wonderful book
Rene, do you feel John would have been the 1966 WDC had it not been for Dragoni?
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Post by René on Nov 8, 2017 23:21:36 GMT
Just think four WC's on the bounce and he had not even got to 1966, no justice in the world in my opinion. Yet the media types on SKY and UK C4 keep banging on about how great certain other drivers are.
John CharlesJC, Clark certainly could and maybe should have won the 1964 title but I think there was noone who begrudged Surtees the title. But that says probably more about the cameraderie of that era. |
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Post by René on Nov 8, 2017 23:36:16 GMT
Rene, Even though your films all seem to end in a Ferrari victory, they are nonetheless wonderful. This one reminded me of my only European Grand Prix, at Monza six years later. Carl, I can't help it. It's stronger than me!  But I'll promise to post a non Ferrari victory next time! Fantastic you were at Monza in 1970. But tragedy was never far away at that time. My first Monza visit was in 1989, unfortunately the first year of the new glass corporate pit building so I never saw the old complex for real. But the atmosphere of Monza is wonderful, quite unique. |
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Post by René on Nov 8, 2017 23:59:20 GMT
Rene, do you feel John would have been the 1966 WDC had it not been for Dragoni? Chris, I tend to say yes without taking anything away from Brabham's performance. Enzo's friendship with Dragoni was strong and he didn't intervene when the power struggles between John and Dragoni continued. He made it worse. But they (Ferrari and Dragoni) shot themselves in the foot. They had a great car and a great driver who was a real team leader. They could have won so much more together... well, that's Ferrari. |
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Post by Carl on Nov 9, 2017 0:16:14 GMT
Rene,
The old Monza was iconic. You can see the pit lane gallery in this film and that it was designed to welcome those who love motor racing. You're right about tragedy, too much of it at Monza. But also triumph. Clay Regazzoni won that race I attended. Forza Ferrari!
-Carl
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Post by René on Nov 9, 2017 16:54:40 GMT
Rene, The old Monza was iconic. You can see the pit lane gallery in this film and that it was designed to welcome those who love motor racing. You're right about tragedy, too much of it at Monza. But also triumph. Clay Regazzoni won that race I attended. Forza Ferrari! -Carl Yep, Clay won in 1970 in the beautiful 312B! Forza Ferrari! |
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Post by robmarsh on Nov 10, 2017 12:44:07 GMT
Some wonderful stories here. I am still going through all the posts on this site so please forgive my late comments. In days gone by Ferrari used to introduce their latest car or motor at Monza. Ferrari surely lost an F1 championship in 1966 just as they potentially lost a Sportscar Championship in 1971. Apart from the years of 2002 and 2004 a Ferrari Championship has never been a forgone conclusion. John Charles your thoughts on Jim Clark and four championships on the bounce compared to today echo mine. Up until Schumacher in 2000 to 2004 nobody had ever looked like winning four on the bounce. Niki Lauda 1974 to 1977 could have been an outside possibility. Ayrton Senna had the potential to win four from 1988 to 1991 but was thwarted by Prost ...... and Balestre.
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Post by chrisb on Nov 10, 2017 15:51:55 GMT
Rob, JohnCharles and I had a musing moment or three in MotorSports forum some months ago about what could have been was it not for that awfully tragic day in April, conjecturing just how many championships Jimmy could have won, was it not for a loose bolt in 1962, the problems in 64, the unreliability in 67 - the wishes of 68, 70 and 72 and JC if memory serves I think we considered a return in 78 as well? between 8 or 9 championships and something around 60 GP victories
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2017 17:20:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2017 18:45:14 GMT
Hello Valentin, welcome on board. And thanks for the link.
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Post by Carl on Nov 16, 2017 18:54:34 GMT
Welcome aboard Valentin! Very glad to have you here.
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But I'll promise to post a non Ferrari victory next time! 
