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Post by Jamie on Jul 15, 2019 20:43:03 GMT
He’s British to me as well John, I think the Thai banner was an aid to sponsorship early on though he’s rightfully proud of his Thai heritage as well of course. If you’re ever bored, google Alex’s mother (Binky Albon) an ‘interesting’ character indeed and someone I remember well from when she was often around our pit garage in the 1994 BTCC season.
Those 3 lads have been a great addition to the grid this year, no doubt.
I read about the Tom Pryce statue and was really pleased to see he’s being honoured in that way - I bet it pleases you immensely also Carl - what a wonderful driver and what a cruel loss our sport suffered that day. It’s almost unbearably sad to read about that fateful day in David Tremayne’s excellent book about Tom, Roger and Tony.
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Post by charleselan on Jul 15, 2019 20:47:17 GMT
He’s British to me as well John, I think the Thai banner was an aid to sponsorship early on though he’s rightfully proud of his Thai heritage as well of course. If you’re ever bored, google Alex’s mother (Binky Albon) an ‘interesting’ character indeed and someone I remember well from when she was often around our pit garage in the 1994 BTCC season. Those 3 lads have been a great addition to the grid this year, no doubt. Thanks Jamie, I will do, she sounds a very interesting lady. Yes those three lads are going to be in the mix for many years to come I feel, stars all of them! |
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Post by Carl on Jul 15, 2019 21:31:54 GMT
I haven't read Mark Hughes' report yet, but soon will. I'm sure that the long absence of Ray stems from his bizarre insistence some time ago that Mercedes AMG modeled its operations on the Wehrmacht and is therefore a crypto-fascist organization! He had been friendly with Mark Hughes (they once met and socialized at the Canadian Grand Prix) and appealed directly to him in this post. When Mark ignored him completely, Ray disappeared. It will be interesting to see his comments, but in some ways, to have someone contentious could be just deserts for some of the more obnoxious posters.
--Edited--
There's an entirely harmless one word comment in the article about the 1979 British Grand Prix
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Post by Carl on Jul 15, 2019 21:45:35 GMT
He’s British to me as well John, I think the Thai banner was an aid to sponsorship early on though he’s rightfully proud of his Thai heritage as well of course. If you’re ever bored, google Alex’s mother (Binky Albon) an ‘interesting’ character indeed and someone I remember well from when she was often around our pit garage in the 1994 BTCC season. Those 3 lads have been a great addition to the grid this year, no doubt. I read about the Tom Pryce statue and was really pleased to see he’s being honoured in that way - I bet it pleases you immensely also Carl - what a wonderful driver and what a cruel loss our sport suffered that day. It’s almost unbearably sad to read about that fateful day in David Tremayne’s excellent book about Tom, Roger and Tony. It certainly does, Jamie! He was my favorite driver for several years because of his beautifully controlled four-wheel drifts, the kind he'd perfected in rallying that gain speed. What a great driver and terrible loss. After some time, I've come also to mourn the young South African marshal, Frederick Jansen van Vuuren, who responded probably as he'd been trained. Just a terrible accident... |
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Post by Jamie on Jul 15, 2019 21:58:40 GMT
I haven't read Mark Hughes' report yet, but soon will. I'm sure that the long absence of Ray stems from his bizarre insistence some time ago that Mercedes AMG modeled its operations on the Wehrmacht and is therefore a crypto-fascist organization! He had been friendly with Mark Hughes (they once met and socialized at the Canadian Grand Prix) and appealed directly to him in this post. When Mark rightly ignored him completely, Ray disappeared. It will be interesting to see what his mental state is currently, but in some ways, to have someone that contentious could be just deserts for some of the more obnoxious posters. I must admit that I don’t go on MS much these days but I did this weekend as my Dad mentioned that there must be a Gehard Berger podcast coming up as they were asking for questions, I had a quick look at some thread or another and, low and behold, there’s Ray making the same hackneyed point about the British press and berating Hamilton fans......yawn. Perhaps I was unlucky and caught his first post for a while. |
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Post by René on Jul 15, 2019 22:29:52 GMT
Mark Hughes's race report is as good as always. I very much like his analytical style which never fails to give a deeper understanding of what went on. His piece on the 1979 Grand Prix by the way, that he visited as a fan together with a mate was also a very nice read. There are still a few posters in the forum who try to have a good conversation but others are really intolerable. Such a shame as Mark's reports deserve better. I am still enjoying last sunday's race and the scrap between Charles and Max. Charles's comment after the race was so good when he said on Dutch tv: "Before Austria it wasn't clear to me that you could go that far in battle but now that I know I say fine. If these are the rules I'll play by them, no problem." Max was the first (and in Charles's mind probably the most important one) to know. Cool.  |
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Post by René on Jul 15, 2019 22:37:58 GMT
He’s British to me as well John, I think the Thai banner was an aid to sponsorship early on though he’s rightfully proud of his Thai heritage as well of course. If you’re ever bored, google Alex’s mother (Binky Albon) an ‘interesting’ character indeed and someone I remember well from when she was often around our pit garage in the 1994 BTCC season. Those 3 lads have been a great addition to the grid this year, no doubt. I read about the Tom Pryce statue and was really pleased to see he’s being honoured in that way - I bet it pleases you immensely also Carl - what a wonderful driver and what a cruel loss our sport suffered that day. It’s almost unbearably sad to read about that fateful day in David Tremayne’s excellent book about Tom, Roger and Tony. It certainly does, Jamie! He was my favorite driver for several years because of his beautifully controlled four-wheel drifts, the kind he'd perfected in rallying that gain speed. What a great driver and terrible loss. After some time, I've come also to mourn the young South African marshal, Frederick Jansen van Vuuren, who responded probably as he'd been trained. Just a terrible accident... I will never forget the moment when I read about the accident in the newspaper. Formula One was still very new to me and this was a very dark side of this fascinating sport. Still have the article and the name Frederick Jansen van Vuuren is one that always stayed with me also because it sounded so Dutch. Strong and sad memory. |
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Post by robmarsh on Jul 16, 2019 10:50:07 GMT
I was there that day at Kyalami, sitting at Crowthorne having flown down from the now Zimbabwe that morning on a charter. I didn't see the actual impact with the marshal, thankfully, but saw the impact with Jacques Laffitte at the end of the main straight seconds later and the resultant medical attention. Not nice and never to be forgotten.
The Dutch sounding name was because the young lad was an Afrikaaner and his roots could be traced right back to Holland.
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Post by charleselan on Jul 16, 2019 13:14:55 GMT
Tom Pryce was a true exponent of oversteer and possessed wonderful car control skills. His accident was inexplicable and was one that really should never have happened, and to this day makes one shudder just to think about it. I am certain that had he not been killed so tragically that he would have been the No.1 driver in the newly formed Arrows Team.
The nearest Tom came to a F1 victory was probably the 1975 British GP where he was outstanding in qualifying driving the beautiful Shadow DN5, alas the deluge of rain on race day threw everything into chaos and Tom was a victim of the conditions. I attended both practice days but did not go to the race, the only British GP I missed from 1969 through to 1992 (not been since). I always remember a friend who I normally went with in those days, who actually was there for the race; said that alongside him on the spectator banking was a large Welshman who in the dry early stages was shouting "come on Tom Boy-yo" every time Tom came past.
On a different tack i am interested in what René heard on Dutch TV when Charles Leclerc was interviewed. I am minded to think that the young man probably spent a lot of time watching many of Max's moves on film after the Austrian GP incident. Just to clarify in his own mind what Max did, and what he got away with, which would have clarified in his own mind what was needed and what would be unquestionably acceptable in the eyes of the F1 authorities. Hence the late move on the approach to Stowe Corner, a move perfected by Max in the past that would always go unchecked. A bit rich of Verstappen to actually complain on the team radio about it being a bit late, when he himself makes a habit of such a manoeuvre.
I have the feeling that Charles will keep these moves for Max exclusively and not apply them to other drivers, not the clean and decisive move he made on his friend Pierre Gasly which was a race highlight.
Interestingly we see from Max what we have seen from others in the past, a readiness to complain about someone else doing to them what they themselves are quite happy to inflict on others, we really do live in an age of the victim agenda.
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Post by Carl on Jul 16, 2019 17:16:13 GMT
Tom Pryce was a true exponent of oversteer and possessed wonderful car control skills. His accident was inexplicable and was one that really should never have happened, and to this day makes one shudder just to think about it. I am certain that had he not been killed so tragically that he would have been the No.1 driver in the newly formed Arrows Team. The nearest Tom came to a F1 victory was probably the 1975 British GP where he was outstanding in qualifying driving the beautiful Shadow DN5, alas the deluge of rain on race day threw everything into chaos and Tom was a victim of the conditions. I attended both practice days but did not go to the race, the only British GP I missed from 1969 through to 1992 (not been since). I always remember a friend who I normally went with in those days, who actually was there for the race; said that alongside him on the spectator banking was a large Welshman who in the dry early stages was shouting "come on Tom Boy-yo" every time Tom came past. On a different tack i am interested in what René heard on Dutch TV when Charles Leclerc was interviewed. I am minded to think that the young man probably spent a lot of time watching many of Max's moves on film after the Austrian GP incident. Just to clarify in his own mind what Max did, and what he got away with, which would have clarified in his own mind what was needed and what would be unquestionably acceptable in the eyes of the F1 authorities. Hence the late move on the approach to Stowe Corner, a move perfected by Max in the past that would always go unchecked. A bit rich of Verstappen to actually complain on the team radio about it being a bit late, when he himself makes a habit of such a manoeuvre. I have the feeling that Charles will keep these moves for Max exclusively and not apply them to other drivers, not the clean and decisive move he made on his friend Pierre Gasly which was a race highlight. Interestingly we see from Max what we have seen from others in the past, a readiness to complain about someone else doing to them what they themselves are quite happy to inflict on others, we really do live in an age of the victim agenda. What a wonderful story of the Welsh fan cheering on his countryman! And your analysis of what Charles must have thought, done, and decided for the future is spot on.
The loudest proclamations of victimhood are often simply an attempt to intimidate by those stuck in childhood.
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Post by René on Jul 16, 2019 22:18:59 GMT
I was there that day at Kyalami, sitting at Crowthorne having flown down from the now Zimbabwe that morning on a charter. I didn't see the actual impact with the marshal, thankfully, but saw the impact with Jacques Laffitte at the end of the main straight seconds later and the resultant medical attention. Not nice and never to be forgotten. The Dutch sounding name was because the young lad was an Afrikaaner and his roots could be traced right back to Holland. Yes, Afrikaans is a 17th century Dutch from the settlers. Over the years influenced by Portuguese, native African languages and English. But with a bit of effort South Africans and the Dutch can understand each other. |
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Post by René on Jul 16, 2019 22:22:04 GMT
I have the feeling that Charles will keep these moves for Max exclusively and not apply them to other drivers, not the clean and decisive move he made on his friend Pierre Gasly which was a race highlight. That is very possible. It's clearly the language Max understands best. But in all fairness to Max, he drove a great race. |
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Post by mikael on Jul 17, 2019 10:15:16 GMT
I was much fascinated by a photo on the MSM homepage, from the start of the 1954 British Grand Prix at Silverstone, like the one shown below (but taken from a different angle). Mercedes were really ages ahead of all the others in terms of car design. Compared to the Mercedes "Streamliners", the other cars all look like steam locomotives ... Fascinating that they actually were beatable - that the "old school" Ferrari actually was better ...  The start.  Gonzalez (9) overtakes Kling (2). |
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Post by robmarsh on Jul 17, 2019 10:45:33 GMT
Mikael part of the problem with the Mercedes was that they had difficulty determining the apex because the front wheels were covered by the bodywork. If you look at Fangio's Mercedes later in the race the bodywork is all bashed in from hitting the oil drums that were used as corner markers.
I have another question for you all. When did it become the done thing that you had to beat your team mate and almost hate him to do so as so often propounded by Brundle, Hill, Rosberg et al? To my recollection it first happened between Lauda and Reuteman. I never saw it between Clark and his team mates or JYS and his team mates, in fact almost the opposite. Was it started by Ferrari inorder to keep the drivers on their toes. I would be interested to know. It is the most prevalent theme in F1, and is ompounded by the almost total domination by one team or another over the last 20 odd years. I do find it very distasteful in any case. It goes against the very meaning of the word team.
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Post by charleselan on Jul 17, 2019 12:06:52 GMT
I would suggest that 1954 was very much a transitional year with Mercedes Benz being much more advanced in their preparations than others who were still using uprated F2 cars from the previous formula. It has similarities with the current formula in which MB were very much in advance of other teams, a head start that along with their huge resources and finances continues to this day.
This dominance will continue until another major manufacture decides to enter and apply a similar level of funding and resource; what we need is a Ford of old, or Renault to spend a similar amount etc. Better still bring about rules that limit what they can do and use, hopefully by doing that the field will be levelled.
It is amazing to think of what the likes of Lotus; Tyrrell and McLaren etc achieved on what were very limited funding. Everyone thinks and believes that Lotus were well funded when they had JPS sponsorship, they weren't as things were still very tight for Colin Chapman. Looking at the brilliant film "If You Aren't Winning, You Aren't Trying" there is a very stark reminder how tight things were run when they were running over life'd parts at the Swedish GP in 1973, just to save money.
Rob, I fully agree with your comment about "team-mates", very much a modern idiom in that they are now perceived as enemies and must be beaten. It is amazing to see the keyboard jockeys hitting the keyboards hard every time team orders are mentioned these days, as if it is a mortal sin. As you say the term "Team" surely gives the game away does it not! I am sure that every driver wants to be the best and win, but back in the past drivers showed much more camaraderie; respect and friendship to one another. More often than not teams employed drivers for a specific role, either number one or number two, or even number three, that was what they were employed to go. In other cases you had the top guy say like JYS at Tyrrell with a young up and coming guy like François as number two.
I suppose that Ferrari tried that this year in some sort of way, but unfortunately as fast as he may be and a four time champion, Sebastian is no JYS, and young Charles isn't going to play second fiddle to him. Stirling Moss played much the same role when teamed with Fangio at MB in 1955, similar to JYS and François.
On the other hand we had great joint number one partnerships like Jim & Graham in 1967, and Emerson & Ronnie in 1973. Both pairings great friends who raced to win against each other when appropriate, but also quite happy to let the other win if need be by own choice or team order. Therein lies the difference.
I think it is very sad to see two team mates driving into one another, or has been seen often in recent times just plain not giving your team mate racing room when duelling. That isn't clever or sensible and if I were team manger the one doing the pushing would be benched the next race as a warning.
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