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Post by Carl on Jul 7, 2019 16:50:09 GMT
Harley-Davidson defines motorcycle to most people here, and most Harley riders pretend to be outlaws. There are real outlaw biker gangs who live in an imaginary wild west and deal drugs and contract murder. Occasional social media swarms of cafe racers will seize control of roadways to perform stunts. Both are dangerous exceptions to the norm, but the attention they crave and receive affects public opinion more than the majority of riders who simply love the freedom while avoiding stupidity. When Honda first arrived in the early 1960s, they marketed the Honda 50 to upper-class prep school types in cashmere sweaters rather than leather jackets, and were enormously successful. I still recall the progression from Honda 50 to Honda 90 (essentially scooters) to a small motorcycle powerful enough to take onto freeways, the Honda 125, then the 250 and 350, culminating for me with the wonderful 500-4, one of which I bought and learned to ride fast through canyons, wearing neither cashmere or leather.
As to Japanese motorcycles, it's easy to get the impression that there always were just four manufacturers (Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha), but I recall reading somewhere that at some point (in time) after WWII, there were about 140 of them. Except for the "big four", they all folded ...
Likewise, a large number of car manufacturers have survived only a limited number of years. The (in Japan) most well-known of the now vanished manufacturers is "Prince", which was merged with Nissan in 1966.
(Sorry that this post has absolutely nothing to do with the 2019 BSB season.)
Mikael, All good conversation meanders. I managed to overlook the very cool CB160 in my earlier post, so I see your meandering and raise you another. 
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Post by mikael on Jul 8, 2019 0:19:06 GMT
When Honda first arrived in the early 1960s, they marketed the Honda 50 to upper-class prep school types in cashmere sweaters rather than leather jackets, and were enormously successful. I still recall the progression from Honda 50 to Honda 90 (essentially scooters) to a small motorcycle powerful enough to take onto freeways, the Honda 125, then the 250 and 350, culminating for me with the wonderful 500-4, one of which I bought and learned to ride fast through canyons, wearing neither cashmere or leather. Carl, I find this topic very interesting (although we, again, are on the wrong territory here). Your post above inspired me to search a bit for such ads of the 60's. These 50+ years old ads still look very "crisp" and would probably be effective also now, in the 21st century. The power of advertising is fascinating, especially since, in this case, Honda moved into "the frontier", targeting, as you say, a group of young people who would normally not be into motorcycles. Honda must be indebted to some very competent and creative advertising people.  "You meet the nicest people on a Honda." From 1967. |
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Post by Carl on Jul 8, 2019 4:19:44 GMT
The Honda ads were delightful and innovative and convinced a lot of people to become new riders
An advertising executive named Robert Emmenegger created the slogan, "You Meet the Nicest People on a Honda" He's now retired and living in Arkansas, hence this excerpt from an Ozark tourism website:
(the correct spelling of the advertising agency is "Grey")
It takes nerve to call 8 bhp hot!
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Post by Carl on Jul 8, 2019 4:35:59 GMT
Mikael, "I find this topic very interesting (although we, again, are on the wrong territory here)"
Yes, but only in the interim...
If we're able to convince British Superbike to adopt a spec series racing Honda 50s, we are visionaries.  Cheers, Carl |
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Post by Carl on Jul 8, 2019 6:34:25 GMT
A clever Honda television spot has Malcolm Smith (secondary only to Steve McQueen as the star of "On Any Sunday") portraying a small town preacher given a motorcycle by his congregation.
The link to it in the Ozark tourism website didn't function...
More about Malcolm Smith, reflecting on the great bikes he's riden
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Post by mikael on Jul 8, 2019 7:25:57 GMT
It takes nerve to call 8 bhp hot!
Yes, but ... In the 70's, small motorcycle-like 50 cc "mopeds" were extremely popular, at least in Denmark, but probably also in a number of other European countries. In Denmark they could be ridden from 15 years of age -- but they were limited to 1 bhp (!); and the top-speed was limited to 30 km/h (about 19 mph). So many a Danish youngster would have found 8 bhp pure heaven! Honda's 4-stroke 50cc was also available with that 1 bhp / 30 km/h limitation; but they were not popular. "Anyone" wanted to have a two-stroke moped, from either Yamaha, Suzuki, Kreidler (of German), or from Puch (of Austria). (I had a Yamaha, exactly like the ones shown in the photo below.)  |
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Post by charleselan on Jul 8, 2019 13:49:51 GMT
What an excellent diversion Mikael & Carl; I am all for such changes of tack something we often got challenged upon when back in the day we all commented in the MS Forum . These small Japanese motorcycles are now becoming increasingly collectable, and are lovely little machines with exquisite engines. I remember back in the late 1970's my mother buying a second hand Honda 50 (Step Through) from Scott's grand father who was at the time trading in all things automotive. It was a fascinating machine with the "twist and go" controls and if memory serves it was the first motorcycle that I rode after abandoning my motocross adventure back in the mid 1960's. |
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Post by René on Jul 8, 2019 18:54:19 GMT
Absolutely wonderful conversation and I love the Honda ads. The picture of the Yamaha bikes in front of Jochen Mass's M23 is also priceless!
The advertising agency Grey is one of the most important and most influential agencies in the world. The brilliant show Mad Men was partly based on Grey in the 1960s.
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Post by chrisb on Jul 9, 2019 4:35:02 GMT
what a wonderful discussion, thoroughly enjoyed, especially the Honda adverts, my favourite in the UK was a TV Honda one with Andy Williams singing and showing us the breadth of Honda's range - wonderful.
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Post by charleselan on Jul 9, 2019 15:10:27 GMT
Absolutely brilliant adverts indeed and such beautiful little motorcycles. The Yamaha advert for the FS1DX is so typically 1970's with the iconic American Yamaha race team colour scheme and the clothing worn by the models; big flared jeans . |
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Post by charleselan on Jul 20, 2019 10:03:22 GMT
The British Superbike series arrives at the fast and challenging Snetterton circuit in the east of the UK situated in the county of Norfolk. The best race series on the planet may well be affected by unpredictable but typically English weather, hopefully it will remain dry and the excellent racing seen so far will not be spoilt by changeable conditions.
Former Moto3 World Champion Danny Kent makes his 2019 debut this weekend on the exotic MV Augusta machine which was used by the factory in WSBK two years ago and ridden by Leon Camier. Hopefully Danny Kent will be able to regenerate his somewhat turbulent career on this bike, the lad is talented but now needs to knuckle down and sort his future which is BSB.
Scott Redding has ridden a road bike around the track, also new to him, and says he likes the track. All of these circuits are new to Scott as he has never really raced in the UK at any time in his career, but he is loving them which is all a racer requires, a happy racer is a fast racer.
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Post by charleselan on Jul 21, 2019 11:25:23 GMT
Not long now before race one at Snetterton, hopefully the weather will be good as it was for qualifying yesterday. Thanks to a good streaming service I managed to watch the qualifying uninterrupted and it was excellent with Scott dominating all sessions and absolutely superb on the PBM Ducati Panagé V4R. Afterwards he said that Snetterton had many similarities to the GP circuits he had been used to which helped, and he loved the track, plain to see. Being over half of a second quicker than his quality team mate Josh Brooks was a good indicator of his performance.
Little Taz McKenzie was a close second, looking very like his illustrious father Nail on the bike according to the commentary team. Jack Burnacle & James Whitham were as always in fine form, Jack even giving poor Peter Hickman the commentators curse by mentioning that Peter had not fallen off his bike for a very long time, and that he wasn't a crasher. Five minutes later Peter had a big tumble as he ran slightly wide and caught the grass verge. dear old Jack was mortified. He need not worry as his comments come no where near those of Keith Huewen of BT Sport MotoGP who cannot help but give every rider he speaks of the curse. One can bet that if Huewen says someone is going to do something the reverse will happen  .
Danny Kent's debut on the MV Augusta was thwarted by constant machine problems sadly, all through a lack of testing and the fact that the bike is very much an unknown quantity in BSB configuration. With luck his fortunes will change for the better, as he seemed very positive in his pre qualifying interview. |
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Post by Carl on Jul 22, 2019 3:47:40 GMT
James Whitham was very complimentary about one of the BSB racers at Snetterton |
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Post by charleselan on Jul 23, 2019 11:41:41 GMT
The weather fortunately held over the weekend at Snetterton and the racing was superb as always. The extension to the track in recent years has made it a much better venue while still retaining its original character, far better than what they have done to Silverstone which really is a terrible place now in my opinion.
After dominating qualifying and practice Scott Redding won both BSB races in some style, and on a track he had never raced upon previously. In both races he did not make the best of starts from pole position but rode with great composure and picked off the other riders ahead of him to win both races. In doing so he reminded me so much of the late great Barry Sheene who always rode in that manner, always biding his time and letting others set the pace, before making his move.
Scott did survive the possibility of a jump start in race two when his bike jumped forward before the lights went out but he stopped the machine inside of the start box, and BSB rules allow that whereas the draconian MotoGP rules do not. As James Whitham commented (thanks Carl above) he rode with great class and assurance, but his team mate Josh brooks kept him "honest" although i doubt Josh would have beaten him in any scenario.
I was very impressed with Tarran McKenzie who rode the wheels off his Yamaha R1 but it was an uphill battle against the Ducati Panaglé V4R's, all three being very quick, Tommy Bridewell's included. Shame that Tarran pushed too hard in the end during race two and crashed out, but he gave it his all none the less.
Also a very impressive ride in both races by the youngest Irwin brother (Andrew) on the factory Honda Fireblade beating his very experienced and quality team mate Xavi Foréz, the latter being new the the track but a wonderful addition to the ranks of BSB.
A non racing highlight for me was on James Whitham's initial "grid walk" where he went to interview Peter Hickman; the opening conversation being "Firstly Peter I have to apologise to you forgiving you the commentators curse in qualifying; well more Jack Burnacle than me", absolutely hilarious in the way it was delivered. This is what makes the Eurosport coverage so exceptional, not only is it hugely knowledgeable but it is laced with humour and brilliant personalities. The other so called motorsports providers should give serious consideration to this.
Another great weekends racing, thank you all in BSB.
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Post by charleselan on Jul 23, 2019 15:17:26 GMT
For any of you guys who have not been able to see the BSB races from Snetterton last weekend 21st July 2019 here is full coverage of both races.
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