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Post by René on Nov 10, 2018 11:29:47 GMT
Good God.......thank you Rob, how could I have forgotten Francois, one of my absolute favourite drivers. Off to give myself a good talking to.....🙂 Jamie, Coming back to François Cevert I came across these photographs last evening and thought they might be of interest, the top one of him signing an autograph has an uncanny resemblance in my opinion to our very own Guy Martin, to me they look more alike every day, very different characters of course. The second shot is an absolute beauty with François in the Matra MS670 which looks to me like it was taken at Dijon, a truly stunning photo with amazing lighting. You also might find this link interesting as it contains a lot of info on him and some great photos:- forum.spirit-modelcar.com/viewtopic.php?f=190&t=3176Fantastic pictures, he was very photogenic both in (due to his helmet) and out of the car and extremely cool. Great link to the model car site, didn't know that one. Thanks JC! |
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Post by René on Nov 10, 2018 11:35:21 GMT
On a slightly different note.....one driver I am still amazed never made it to the very top was Georgio Pantano. He was without doubt the best kart driver I’ve ever seen, truly amazing, unbeatable almost.....I thought he would be F1 World Champion several times over but it never really happened for him after getting into single seaters. He had a brief spell with Jordan in 2004 (possibly 2005?) and won the GP2 title but I really thought he’d sweep all before him.....I’m still amazed he didn’t really, he was talented beyond belief. Wasn't that, to a lesser exttend also not the case with Jarno Trulli? A brilliant karter who eventually did make it to F1 with a descent career but never the multiple GP winner and champion that people saw in him when he was younger. |
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Post by René on Nov 11, 2018 12:02:39 GMT
Felipe Massa, amongst recent drivers. I watched an interview yesterday with Timo Glock who, unintentionally became a key player in the 2008 title decider at Interlagos ten years ago. Quite amazing to hear him talk about that and how that event haunted him for years, something I never realized. You all know what happened, how Lewis passed Timo in the last lap to finish fifth and claim the title while at that moment Felipe was the virtual champion after winning the race and Brazil and Italy were already celebrating. Timo's tyres were completely gone and he was driving on ice, something that can clearly be seen on the onboard images of his car. During those last laps Timo asked his team if he could come in for tyres so he could at least finish the race and maybe score a point. At the time he was ten seconds slower than average so they pitted him in the last lap. He continued the race and his engineer told him on the radio Lewis just became champion. When he finally finished and parked his car, Lewis was also there so he walked to him and congratulated him. And this was apparently a situation that many people saw as a preconcieved plan... Timo told the interviewer that he received death threats after the race and even his family in Germany was threatened with letters they received telling them their son should stop racing! He needed extra protection the years after in Brazil and only after five years things seemed to cool down after the onboard images of his car were released by the FIA that clearly showed his tyres were gone and he did not let Lewis by on purpose... Can you believe this story and why did the FIA only released the images five years later? Never heard this before but it was Timo himself telling the story and still moved by the thoughts of those events. A shame to realize there are those kind of idiots among the 'fans'. |
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Post by charleselan on Nov 11, 2018 12:34:05 GMT
Felipe Massa, amongst recent drivers. I watched an interview yesterday with Timo Glock who, unintentionally became a key player in the 2008 title decider at Interlagos ten years ago. Quite amazing to hear him talk about that and how that event haunted him for years, something I never realized. You all know what happened, how Lewis passed Timo in the last lap to finish fifth and claim the title while at that moment Felipe was the virtual champion after winning the race and Brazil and Italy were already celebrating. Timo's tyres were completely gone and he was driving on ice, something that can clearly be seen on the onboard images of his car. During those last laps Timo asked his team if he could come in for tyres so he could at least finish the race and maybe score a point. At the time he was ten seconds slower than average so they pitted him in the last lap. He continued the race and his engineer told him on the radio Lewis just became champion. When he finally finished and parked his car, Lewis was also there so he walked to him and congratulated him. And this was apparently a situation that many people saw as a preconcieved plan... Timo told the interviewer that he received death threats after the race and even his family in Germany was threatened with letters they received telling them their son should stop racing! He needed extra protection the years after in Brazil and only after five years things seemed to cool down after the onboard images of his car were released by the FIA that clearly showed his tyres were gone and he did not let Lewis by on purpose... Can you believe this story and why did the FIA only released the images five years later? Never heard this before but it was Timo himself telling the story and still moved by the thoughts of those events. A shame to realize there are those kind of idiots among the 'fans'. What a superb bit of insight René, many thanks for posting this. Surely no one in their right mind would believe that Timo let Hamilton by intentionally, sadly such are these times in this century where everything is open to every nut job on the planet. The FIA are a lamentable organisation that need a thorough clean out, from the top down! Loosing the championship like he did was absolutely tragic for Felippe, he would have been a very good World Champion. Regarding the model car site I linked earlier; it was new to me also, and it is one of many that originate in France. François Cevert was surely one of the most charismatic drivers of all time, just such a striking man. I have to disagree with Chris about his assertion that he was a good number two driver. Any driver that on many occasions in 1973 was faster than the great JYS has to be of the highest ability, and it was JYS that openly admitted François was quicker than him but chose to sit behind him out of respect. Jarno Trulli was a strange one, phenomenally quick over one lap but rarely could he do it consistently over the course of a race. He was quicker than Teflonso over one lap but did not have the support at Benetton thanks to that most unctuous of individuals who managed the team. |
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Post by chrisb on Nov 11, 2018 13:18:49 GMT
Rene, what a terrible and sad story about that nail-biting finish to a WDC and I would wholeheartedly agree that Massa would have been more than worthy WDC, Timo i always rated, but never in my wildest imagination did i ever dream of any underhand stuff that went with Lewis's superb drive, i was always puzzled why Timo never got another decent drive but perhaps what happened off the track influenced these matters, a real shame and thank you for sharing it.
Francois was the most incredible human being, talent beyond my imagination, he was a very great driver and a worthy winner, and so charismatic and I do so rate Francois, but never saw him as a potential WDC, maybe one for me to ponder.
John, do you mean the '73 German GP? I too have heard that story where Jackie said Francois was quicker than he was that day, but I have also heard Jackie deny that, saying he was misquoted, so I am a bit puzzled if Jackie acknowledges it or not,
Jarno, was an enigma to me, as you say blindingly quick over one lap, neat, precise but under-supported, you knew over one lap he was just mighty, then a mobile chicane in the race, and drew a lot of derision and I was so pleased when he won his GP, I did think that might have turned a corner for him as he was quick, fair and down-to-earth, with sheer class but sadly not.
apart from the millions they have accrued what is it about motor racing that attracts these unsavoury people, Briatore was just so unpleasant and, did we not do a thread on heroes and villains? he was surely one of the worst?
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Post by charleselan on Nov 11, 2018 15:24:20 GMT
Rene, what a terrible and sad story about that nail-biting finish to a WDC and I would wholeheartedly agree that Massa would have been more than worthy WDC, Timo i always rated, but never in my wildest imagination did i ever dream of any underhand stuff that went with Lewis's superb drive, i was always puzzled why Timo never got another decent drive but perhaps what happened off the track influenced these matters, a real shame and thank you for sharing it. Francois was the most incredible human being, talent beyond my imagination, he was a very great driver and a worthy winner, and so charismatic and I do so rate Francois, but never saw him as a potential WDC, maybe one for me to ponder. John, do you mean the '73 German GP? I too have heard that story where Jackie said Francois was quicker than he was that day, but I have also heard Jackie deny that, saying he was misquoted, so I am a bit puzzled if Jackie acknowledges it or not, Jarno, was an enigma to me, as you say blindingly quick over one lap, neat, precise but under-supported, you knew over one lap he was just mighty, then a mobile chicane in the race, and drew a lot of derision and I was so pleased when he won his GP, I did think that might have turned a corner for him as he was quick, fair and down-to-earth, with sheer class but sadly not. apart from the millions they have accrued what is it about motor racing that attracts these unsavoury people, Briatore was just so unpleasant and, did we not do a thread on heroes and villains? he was surely one of the worst? Good post Chris, I especially like the last paragraph, could not agree more about that vile person, and we, myself included think that some today are bad. Nothing on that guy. I believe that JYS mentioned that François was quicker than him at the Nurburgring, but have not come across his denial. I will mention though that he did say in a film about his career, might have been that great little series of films his son Paul produced, that he felt François was quicker than him in some races during 1973. If one looks at that season it is quite clear that Cevert was quicker in Argentina where he lead comfortably until mechanical problems; Belgium he was leading again until he spun due to the track disintegrating; Sweden he was the main challenger to Ronnie during the first part of the race. I will concede that François did sometimes go to sleep at some circuits, Silverstone in particular where he never appeared to be a factor, maybe he spent too much time with the girls before those meetings  . With regard to Jarno Trulli maybe it was a similar thing to Fisichella who was also very quick but it did not translate into many GP wins. I always felt that Giancarlo was somewhat mentally fragile (I don't mean that in a disrespectful way) and could not take the pressure of being in a big organisation. He always went well in a small team but when he shipped up at Ferrari to replace Massa he was made to look like a beginner by Kimi in that dog of an underdeveloped Ferrari. |
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Post by chrisb on Nov 12, 2018 8:37:46 GMT
John, I do feel that some people need a nurturing environment in order to shine, others have that incredible self-belief, neither is positive nor negative but realistic, a good manager susses that out and works accordingly, hence why I thought Giancarlo did much better with Eddie Jordan, for all his faults but why so many fail at RB and Benetton.
I will dig out that piece John, it may well be on yutub about the Ring,
talking of managers reminded me of Peter Warr, he despised Nigel and did all he could to be rid of him, and that he did, which led to Nigel successes at Williams, was wondering how anyone saw Peter?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 9:02:11 GMT
Felipe Massa, amongst recent drivers. I watched an interview yesterday with Timo Glock who, unintentionally became a key player in the 2008 title decider at Interlagos ten years ago. Quite amazing to hear him talk about that and how that event haunted him for years, something I never realized. You all know what happened, how Lewis passed Timo in the last lap to finish fifth and claim the title while at that moment Felipe was the virtual champion after winning the race and Brazil and Italy were already celebrating. Timo's tyres were completely gone and he was driving on ice, something that can clearly be seen on the onboard images of his car. During those last laps Timo asked his team if he could come in for tyres so he could at least finish the race and maybe score a point. At the time he was ten seconds slower than average so they pitted him in the last lap. He continued the race and his engineer told him on the radio Lewis just became champion. When he finally finished and parked his car, Lewis was also there so he walked to him and congratulated him. And this was apparently a situation that many people saw as a preconcieved plan... Timo told the interviewer that he received death threats after the race and even his family in Germany was threatened with letters they received telling them their son should stop racing! He needed extra protection the years after in Brazil and only after five years things seemed to cool down after the onboard images of his car were released by the FIA that clearly showed his tyres were gone and he did not let Lewis by on purpose... Can you believe this story and why did the FIA only released the images five years later? Never heard this before but it was Timo himself telling the story and still moved by the thoughts of those events. A shame to realize there are those kind of idiots among the 'fans'. Thanks for that post Rene, It seems that Glock was a victim of unthinking fan behaviour. While Hamilton passing Glock was the final action that took the WDC away from Massa, I've always thought that Massa was a victim of Renault's 'crashgate' actions at the Singapore GP. Maybe, he still would have had that disasterous fuel rig towing pitstop, but as that happended under the stress of a Piquet induced 'safety car', its likely he wouldn't. To my thinking we never got to see what Massa could have a achieved, because he was never able to challenge for a championship after this brain injury in 2009. |
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Post by charleselan on Nov 12, 2018 9:35:44 GMT
John, I do feel that some people need a nurturing environment in order to shine, others have that incredible self-belief, neither is positive nor negative but realistic, a good manager susses that out and works accordingly, hence why I thought Giancarlo did much better with Eddie Jordan, for all his faults but why so many fail at RB and Benetton. I will dig out that piece John, it may well be on yutub about the Ring, talking of managers reminded me of Peter Warr, he despised Nigel and did all he could to be rid of him, and that he did, which led to Nigel successes at Williams, was wondering how anyone saw Peter? Some excellent points Chris. For all of Eddie's "Clown Prince" antics on the UK C4 presentation he was a very good team manager in my opinion, he always got the best out of his drivers. Personally I feel that Mateschitz should rid himself of the toxic team members in his two teams, but that ain't going to happen anytime soon, so more of the same from that crap organisation. You are correct in that many drivers have suffered thanks to the awful man management at both RB & Benetton over the years. I cannot abide the gross favouritism of one, and the disdain of the other attitude. Peter Warr creates conflict for me, in that he was excellent on some occasions like his time with Walter Wolf, and the years after Colin Chapman died at Team Lotus. He certainly did not like Nigel Mansell and some of his comments and actions towards him were not pleasant or professional. I have also seen him behave like a complete prat when at Team Lotus the first time around. One incident always sticks with me from the excellent 1973 film "If you aren't winning, you aren't trying". In the Dutch GP Ronnie enters the pits having lead for the first half of the race with a broken gearbox; Warr excitedly shouts to Chapman "He's broken it again"! Not so, as it was revealed in a MS interview quite recently with Ronnie's former mechanic/engineer that the gearbox broke due to poor methodology in its assembly. Peter Warr always looked to me as a person who wished to find negatives in people. |
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Post by chrisb on Nov 12, 2018 17:23:39 GMT
thank you John,
as a manager I would have worked for EJ, he always struck me as someone who encouraged - whilst the toxic twins seem to feel intimidation is motivation, sadly never for me,
Peter Warr I could never warm to, there always seemed a hint of viciousness to him and yes I think your summary speaks volumes.
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Post by Carl on Nov 12, 2018 21:50:36 GMT
thank you John, as a manager I would have worked for EJ, he always struck me as someone who encouraged - whilst the toxic twins seem to feel intimidation is motivation, sadly never for me, Peter Warr I could never warm to, there always seemed a hint of viciousness to him and yes I think your summary speaks volumes. Mark Hughes has at times been surprisingly complimentary about Helmut Marko. He ignored my email blasting the Red Bull ogre for severely criticizing a potential driver's unfamiliarity with both Mozart and his hometown of Salzburg. It's difficult to imagine a more idiotic qualification for a race car driver. The young man was American. Certainly a German or Austrian driver would have known...
About Peter Warr, a driver should never trust a team manager with eyeglasses like goggles, a clear sign he thinks he'd do better behind the wheel and resents you.
Cheers, Carl
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Post by robmarsh on Nov 13, 2018 7:10:07 GMT
My favourite story about Peter Warr was at one of the German GPs in the late 80s when I think Warr had just been fired the mechanics were going around like John Cleese in Fawlty Towers saying "Don't mention the Warr".
To be honest I did enjoy his book.
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