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Post by robmarsh on Nov 8, 2018 14:32:43 GMT
Great thread and you guys have covered just about all my favourites for the title. I have two more though. Francois Cevert and Peter Collins.
Tony Brise was definitely WC material. He had that "star" quality about him.
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Post by charleselan on Nov 8, 2018 14:47:48 GMT
Great thread and you guys have covered just about all my favourites for the title. I have two more though. Francois Cevert and Peter Collins. Tony Brise was definitely WC material. He had that "star" quality about him. Absolutely Rob, I would easily have included François and Peter. I have often mentioned that I felt François Cevert would have been a WC for Tyrrell had he survived, can you imagine him in the "6-Wheeler" in 1976  . Peter Collins and Tony Brooks would have been a great pairing at Ferrari in 1959; would he still have been at Maranello to drive the Shark Nose in 1961, possibly? |
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Post by Jamie on Nov 8, 2018 19:27:22 GMT
Great thread and you guys have covered just about all my favourites for the title. I have two more though. Francois Cevert and Peter Collins. Tony Brise was definitely WC material. He had that "star" quality about him. Good God.......thank you Rob, how could I have forgotten Francois, one of my absolute favourite drivers. Off to give myself a good talking to.....🙂 |
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Post by Carl on Nov 8, 2018 22:02:02 GMT
The loss of Tony Brise was especially tragic. I was at the inaugural event in Long Beach, a Formula 5000 race to qualify the venue for Formula One, and he was massively impressive, astonishing several top drivers in a stellar field which included future World Champions Mario Andretti, Alan Jones and Jody Scheckter plus Chris Amon, Brian Redman, Tom Pryce, Al Unser, George Follmer, Jackie Oliver, and David Hobbs.
Brise was third fastest qualifier, won his heat race and set fastest race lap more than a second quicker than Andretti's pole time.
Here he's passing Al Unser into Turn 4
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2018 8:17:42 GMT
Felipe Massa, amongst recent drivers
Great thread, nice to think about those many talented drivers over the era's who didn't achieve the ultimate acolade.
Much more fun than arguments about which were the 'Greatest' of the greats
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Post by mikael on Nov 9, 2018 10:29:21 GMT
Wolfgang von Trips -- who was en route to becoming World Champion in 1961 when he lost his life at Monza.
Giancarlo Baghetti -- who won on his GP debut (French GP 1961).
(If you can win your first GP you probably also have the capacity to become a World Champion ... or ... maybe it isn't that simple; anyway, I let it stand ...)
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Post by charleselan on Nov 9, 2018 10:43:28 GMT
Great thread and you guys have covered just about all my favourites for the title. I have two more though. Francois Cevert and Peter Collins. Tony Brise was definitely WC material. He had that "star" quality about him. Good God.......thank you Rob, how could I have forgotten Francois, one of my absolute favourite drivers. Off to give myself a good talking to.....🙂 Jamie, Coming back to François Cevert I came across these photographs last evening and thought they might be of interest, the top one of him signing an autograph has an uncanny resemblance in my opinion to our very own Guy Martin, to me they look more alike every day, very different characters of course. The second shot is an absolute beauty with François in the Matra MS670 which looks to me like it was taken at Dijon, a truly stunning photo with amazing lighting. You also might find this link interesting as it contains a lot of info on him and some great photos:- forum.spirit-modelcar.com/viewtopic.php?f=190&t=3176  |
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Post by charleselan on Nov 9, 2018 10:57:07 GMT
Wolfgang von Trips -- who was en route to becoming World Champion in 1961 when he lost his life at Monza. Giancarlo Baghetti -- who won on his GP debut (French GP 1961). (If you can win your first GP you probably also have the capacity to become a World Champion ... or ... maybe it isn't that simple; anyway, I let it stand ...) Those are two very interesting ones Mikael. It would have been a close run thing between Taffy von Trips and Phil Hill in 1961, as good a driver as Taffy was I think that Phil Hill was better, a very underrated pilot in my opinion. Baghetti was a strange one; yes he came on the scene from virtually nowhere to non Italian eyes, and won his first two races in a "Shark Nose" Ferrari 156 that was not an official factory entry. Although the car was to an earlier specification to that run by the Scuderia it was still more powerful than the British and German cars. He did drive very well for both wins and therefore displayed good ability, but a future World Champion I do not think so, as his star faded very quickly afterwards. |
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Post by charleselan on Nov 9, 2018 11:02:29 GMT
The loss of Tony Brise was especially tragic. I was at the inaugural event in Long Beach, a Formula 5000 race to qualify the venue for Formula One, and he was massively impressive, astonishing several top drivers in a stellar field which included future World Champions Mario Andretti, Alan Jones and Jody Scheckter plus Chris Amon, Brian Redman, Tom Pryce, Al Unser, George Follmer, Jackie Oliver, and David Hobbs.
Brise was third fastest qualifier, won his heat race and set fastest race lap more than a second quicker than Andretti's pole time.
Here he's passing Al Unser into Turn 4
Great picture Carl, and you are correct it was a stunning performance that really opened the eyes of those who had not seen much of Tony Brise up until then. Graham Hill recognised the talent and signed him to his team, and I believe it was this that prompted Graham to hang up his helmet. I have seen other pictures of this Teddy Yip sponsored Lola and boy does it look tatty and rough in comparison with some of the other teams cars; it went well though. As well as terrific speed it was said back in the day that Tony had a certain air of arrogance about him which set him apart, some of the greats have had that. |
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Post by Jamie on Nov 9, 2018 11:37:55 GMT
Good God.......thank you Rob, how could I have forgotten Francois, one of my absolute favourite drivers. Off to give myself a good talking to.....🙂 Jamie, Coming back to François Cevert I came across these photographs last evening and thought they might be of interest, the top one of him signing an autograph has an uncanny resemblance in my opinion to our very own Guy Martin, to me they look more alike every day, very different characters of course. The second shot is an absolute beauty with François in the Matra MS670 which looks to me like it was taken at Dijon, a truly stunning photo with amazing lighting. You also might find this link interesting as it contains a lot of info on him and some great photos:- forum.spirit-modelcar.com/viewtopic.php?f=190&t=3176Great pictures John, thank you. Agree RE the resemblance to Guy Martin, my Dad mentioned this also 👍 As an interlude, the chap behind Francois looks like a chubby Leonardo DiCaprio..... I’ll have a look at the link later 👍 |
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Post by chrisb on Nov 9, 2018 16:43:16 GMT
Mikael, I would totally agree with Massa, I thought that was a real nail biter but what impressed me more was his subsequent behaviour, real class act, and someone very worthy of a championship,
sorry, Jamie and John, I'm not sure I agree with Francois as a future WDC, he was good as a number 2, and had that terrible crash not happened what would have 1974 looked like? The Tyrell wasn't the best car, the M23 was, the 72 was still special and the Ferrari's were mighty and ran Emmo very close, taking that into account could Clay Regazzoni be counted as unfortunate not to have won an F1WDC?
Tony Brise to me had that air of nonchalance about him, he knew he was special, and for yet another needless tragedy, gosh we are coming up to the 43rd anniversary soon, - 43 years ago- he really was a champion in waiting
I was always a bit torn between Phil Hill and Taffy, sometimes Taffy looked like he had the upper hand and other times less so, whereas Phil, who I always felt was better than most in sports cars I just never got the same sense of brilliance in an F1 car. Maybe when they were still front engined Phil had a definite edge but the 1.5ltr cars - not so sure. Had Tony Brooks stayed or Pete Collins not had that dreadful crash there I think they would have walked it.
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Post by Carl on Nov 9, 2018 17:32:28 GMT
Occasionally the thought occurs to me that some who are born with the natural ability to balance a car at speed with relative ease may never have had the chance to drive even a moped, the motorsport equivalent of those superlative geniuses who never had access to school. C'est la vie...
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Post by Jamie on Nov 9, 2018 17:48:57 GMT
On a slightly different note.....one driver I am still amazed never made it to the very top was Georgio Pantano.
He was without doubt the best kart driver I’ve ever seen, truly amazing, unbeatable almost.....I thought he would be F1 World Champion several times over but it never really happened for him after getting into single seaters.
He had a brief spell with Jordan in 2004 (possibly 2005?) and won the GP2 title but I really thought he’d sweep all before him.....I’m still amazed he didn’t really, he was talented beyond belief.
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Post by Carl on Nov 9, 2018 23:19:03 GMT
On a slightly different note.....one driver I am still amazed never made it to the very top was Georgio Pantano. He was without doubt the best kart driver I’ve ever seen, truly amazing, unbeatable almost.....I thought he would be F1 World Champion several times over but it never really happened for him after getting into single seaters. He had a brief spell with Jordan in 2004 (possibly 2005?) and won the GP2 title but I really thought he’d sweep all before him.....I’m still amazed he didn’t really, he was talented beyond belief. He seemed certain to succeed. He'd been the karting hero of both Alonso and Rosberg. A real mystery... |
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Post by René on Nov 10, 2018 11:25:21 GMT
Felipe Massa, amongst recent drivers Great thread, nice to think about those many talented drivers over the era's who didn't achieve the ultimate acolade. Much more fun than arguments about which were the 'Greatest' of the greats Oh yes, Felipe. How he deserved that 2008 title. I was a big fan at the time, he was so fast. Lost a bit of that speed after the accident, even if he himself always denied that. Or maybe it was being teamed up with Fernando that dented his self confidence? Very good driver though and a likeable chap. Not getting excited about his FE adventure but I hope he does well. |
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