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Post by robmarsh on Nov 5, 2018 7:00:05 GMT
Bill good to have you here as we not only talk motor racing but also other items of interest like music and cricket, home improvements eg the use of sandpaper vs sticky paper when shining scuffed leather etc.
I will wade in on your latest comments and predictions when I get back from the dentist having had my front tooth replaced.
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Post by robmarsh on Nov 5, 2018 10:27:14 GMT
John Charles, Don't overlook a very useful tool at your disposal. As a longtime avid fan of motorsport, you are allowed to use the former points system of discarding a low result and doing so makes your record a perfect 100%... A bill for my accounting is forthcoming... Cheers, Carl Carl, I was seriously chastened by the fact that my prediction of Master Ickx becoming World Champion in 1971 was badly incorrect. However I take heart in the fact that your astute knowledge of previous points scoring could come into play and nullify this rather rash assumption, forgetting the incredible skills of one John Young Stewart. I will keep an eye open for the bill . Cheers John Charles Don't beat yourself up Charles on your erroneous prediction re Ickx. Autocar had him winning four titles in a row from 1971. They predicted this at the end of 1969 and had Rindt down for 1970. Why they wrote JYS off so soon as always perplexed me but then Autocar wasn't really a mainstream motor racing mag then.
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Post by robmarsh on Nov 5, 2018 10:41:55 GMT
I like the predictions, some wild and some not so wild. Based on what has been said so far I will make the following prediction. Hamilton will win 17 races.
As Bill said I am useless at predictions but normally my second attempt is better so here goes.
Vettel will dominate the Ferrari team and will win eight races plus the championship. Leclerc will prove to be a star in the making and will out qualify Seb five times and will win his first GP. Following which the majority of headlines will say "It is I, Leclerc" He will win two in total.
Hamilton will win four races and Bottas three. Mercs championship challenge will fade by the time the North American races start at COTA.
Max will win four races, the Honda engine proving much more competitive and reliable. Gasly will win one but will be out qualified by Max 17 to 4.
Renault will get close with the Hulk getting his first podium. He and Danny Ric will be close with the toothsome aussie just shading them.
Sauber will change to Alfa Romeo and will finnish fifth in the championship just behind Renault with Kimi earning two podiums. Kimi would lead the Italian GP on a blistering hot day before mistakenly stopping for an ice cream instead of tyres.
Stroll will outqualify Perez whenever it rains but otherwise Force India Stroll will have a lean time of things.
I am not sure about McLaren and Williams but Russell will have a better year than Norris.
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Post by charleselan on Nov 5, 2018 17:52:29 GMT
Carl, I was seriously chastened by the fact that my prediction of Master Ickx becoming World Champion in 1971 was badly incorrect. However I take heart in the fact that your astute knowledge of previous points scoring could come into play and nullify this rather rash assumption, forgetting the incredible skills of one John Young Stewart. I will keep an eye open for the bill . Cheers John Charles Don't beat yourself up Charles on your erroneous prediction re Ickx. Autocar had him winning four titles in a row from 1971. They predicted this at the end of 1969 and had Rindt down for 1970. Why they wrote JYS off so soon as always perplexed me but then Autocar wasn't really a mainstream motor racing mag then. Cheers Rob, what made it worse was the fact that I had joined a slot car club at the time and some mouthy clown was all JYS this and JYS that, and I was convinced on the performance of 1970 that Jacky Ickx and Ferrari had it in the bag. To be honest I think it was Ferrari that let the side down by bringing out the 312B2 that was not as good as the original 312B, particularly in its initial configuration. Also the Firestone slicks (treadless tyres being in their first year in 1971) were not as good as the Dunlop and Goodyear rubber mainly due to vibrations particularly on the Ferrari and BRM cars. I still believe that Jacky was massively quick right up until he sat in the 1974 Lotus, but almost immediately he became concerned about Lotus cars fragility. In 1972 he produced some stunning drives in the much modified and improved 312B2 but often let down by mechanical frailty; his German GP win was outstanding, and I am sure he would have won at Brands Hatch too if the thing had held together. Once he joined the Walter Wolf Williams team driving old Hesketh cars he was on the downward spiral, and it was tragic seeing him trying to even qualify those heaps. He did get a bit of a renaissance when he took over Mo Nunn's Ensign after Chris Amon called it a day but the leg breaking accident at Watkins Glen probably took its toll. The comeback with Ligier in 1979 was not a success and I think that the spark had gone as well as his intense dislike of ground effect. Strangely some of his legendary sport car drives later on brought back memories of what he had been capable in his prime in F1. Ickx should have been a world champion at least once, but it was not meant to be. JC
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Post by René on Nov 5, 2018 20:33:34 GMT
Ickx should have been a world champion at least once, but it was not meant to be. Agreed. Ickx, like Peterson or Villeneuve should have been champion at least ones based on their talent. There are drivers with more than one title who were not more talented than the three drivers mentioned above. But that's how it goes as Kimi would say. Life is never fair. Great driver though, Jacky Ickx. I only saw him once in F1 'live' in period, at Zandvoort 1979 in the Ligier. And of course this year at Spa demonstrating the Ferrari 312B, goosebumps.
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Post by robmarsh on Nov 5, 2018 21:28:28 GMT
I always had tremendous respect for Jacky Ickx and still do. He should have been a world champion as Charles and René said and sadly the Ferraris in 1971 to 73 were not really deserving of his skill. His sportscar drives were magnificent and were a worthy barometer of his talent.
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Post by Carl on Nov 5, 2018 22:59:44 GMT
I always had tremendous respect for Jacky Ickx and still do. He should have been a world champion as Charles and René said and sadly the Ferraris in 1971 to 73 were not really deserving of his skill. His sportscar drives were magnificent and were a worthy barometer of his talent. I agree Rob. When Ickx outqualified most F1 cars at the Nurburgring in his F2 Matra, I knew he was special. His superb pole there in 1969 sealed the deal for me and I was sure he'd be champion soon.
I wonder if his somewhat passive philosophy meant Jacky was not as aggressive as he should have been selecting teams. He certainly had great success driving for John Wyer and Porsche in sports cars, which seemed to me almost a consolation rather than the grand prize his talent deserved.
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Post by charleselan on Nov 5, 2018 23:15:03 GMT
It is great to see the respect on this forum for Jacky Ickx. For me he is easily one of the greats of our sport and also should be considered the greatest of all rounders, for who else has won in Grand Prix; Sports Cars; Touring Cars, Can Am; Rally Raid (Paris Dakar no less) and motorcycle trials.
His extraordinary talent was so apparent in the most challenging of circumstances, the absolute master of wet weather driving, and supreme at the drivers circuits like Nurburgring and Spa. Some of his "comeback" drives at Le Mans are the material of legend.
In some ways he was the Max Verstappen of his era; alarmingly young and apparently without fear ins early years, and not above roughing up the old guard in battle, but without the arrogance of young Max, and ready to apologise for a mistake (how refreshing that would be today).
Yes René, right up there with Ronnie & Gilles with regard to deserving at least one championship in Grand Prix.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2018 10:13:02 GMT
I like the predictions, some wild and some not so wild. Based on what has been said so far I will make the following prediction. Hamilton will win 17 races. As Bill said I am useless at predictions but normally my second attempt is better so here goes. Vettel will dominate the Ferrari team and will win eight races plus the championship. Leclerc will prove to be a star in the making and will out qualify Seb five times and will win his first GP. Following which the majority of headlines will say "It is I, Leclerc" He will win two in total. Hamilton will win four races and Bottas three. Mercs championship challenge will fade by the time the North American races start at COTA. Max will win four races, the Honda engine proving much more competitive and reliable. Gasly will win one but will be out qualified by Max 17 to 4. Renault will get close with the Hulk getting his first podium. He and Danny Ric will be close with the toothsome aussie just shading them. Sauber will change to Alfa Romeo and will finnish fifth in the championship just behind Renault with Kimi earning two podiums. Kimi would lead the Italian GP on a blistering hot day before mistakenly stopping for an ice cream instead of tyres. Stroll will outqualify Perez whenever it rains but otherwise Force India Stroll will have a lean time of things. I am not sure about McLaren and Williams but Russell will have a better year than Norris. Some quite wildly ludicrous and brilliantly unhinged predictions here, Marsh. You haven't changed! "Max will win four races, the Honda engine proving much more competitive and reliable. Gasly will win one but will be out qualified by Max 17 to 4." No, I think you will find Max will win zero (0) races and Gasly will win zero (0). Their total wins, when combined - like most totals are - will be zero (0). Honda will regress and Red Bull will endure a nightmare season. Vettel WDC? Eight wins? Hmm. It's nice to think that Vettel might be provided with a superior car to the Mercedes and push Hamilton into errors and bad moods in the same way Seb was pushed this year. But I suspect we will see a similar season to 2018, with more Ferrari tactical errors than Merc, less Ferrari technical development than Merc, and a few unconscionable cockups from Seb. Might 'It is I' shine through and become the sensation of the year? In a word, no. Seems a tough lad and fast, but he will just be hanging on next year. He's never faced anyone like Seb. All of this is good material for a 'Predictions' thread next Feb anyway. The Honda Red Bull marriage is fascinating, the Seb v Charles fight is fascinating, and there'll be a subtext running at Merc for Bottas. Nothing about Bottas has really told me clearly that he's a better driver than Ocon. He will need to push Lewis harder next year or it's Formula E for him.
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Post by robmarsh on Nov 6, 2018 10:41:39 GMT
Ah Bill its good to have you here.
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Post by chrisb on Nov 6, 2018 16:31:20 GMT
I also saw Jacky in a Ligier at Silverstone and lacklustre summed him up, yet when I saw him win Le Mans he was electric,
I always thought Jackie a very intelligent and sensitive person, sophisticated with a conflict of safety vs thrill, whilst we all remember the 1967 German GP qualifying and race Jacky was there in 1966 and involved in an accident with John Taylor, the details of which I cannot find any information about, other than poor John died a few weeks later from the burns.
For me, although he didn't support Jackie's campaign Jacky was terribly affected by the loss of some of his colleagues, I know that Jimmy gave Jacky a right bollocking for the accident at Barcelona and Jacky would only keep one photo of another racing driver at his home, and that was Jimmy. I think that knocked off some of the speed and then Jochen's terrible accident at Monza affected Jacky as well. Although he was still mighty and especially [was it Brands in 1974?] in the wet. I think more disillusioned with F1 than anything else, but a WDC I am not so sure, his ability yes, but after 1970 his desire?
But, we talk of the likes of Stirling and Mario and their ability to race anything anywhere and I think Jacky is overlooked in that respect, a real all-rounder and master of many a circuit
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Post by René on Nov 6, 2018 16:33:12 GMT
Cheers Rob, what made it worse was the fact that I had joined a slot car club at the time and some mouthy clown was all JYS this and JYS that, and I was convinced on the performance of 1970 that Jacky Ickx and Ferrari had it in the bag. JC, did you race a Jacky Ickx Ferrari at the club and beat that clown?
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Post by chrisb on Nov 6, 2018 16:43:42 GMT
predictions? isn't that what a politician says when he isn't telling the truth? in other words all the time
Lewis will have to be favourite, let's be honest Bottas has been very disappointing [or sidelined like Massa] and reeks of Kovalainen and has really flattered to deceive, but would Ocon do any better? I think at least he would not be on such a leash and would take the fight to Lewis, which would seriously upset Lewis, one of the reasons I still don't put drivers like Michael or Lewis in the upper brackets is their unwillingness to have internal competition, even Senna did, Lewis likes nothing better than a strict no 1 and 2. And every year it makes me re-evaluate Niko Rosberg and every year my respect deepens.
Whatever the infighting was or is at Ferrari it isn't healthy, certainly not for any fan casual or otherwise, even a non-Ferrari fan wouldn't mind seeing a real challenge and maybe Honda will get it right, after all, they did in motorbikes and if they did wouldn't that be such a slap in the face for what was a pretty good racing outfit
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Post by Carl on Nov 6, 2018 16:58:33 GMT
My predictions are secret until confirmed, but...
My hopes are for both Honda and Renault to have more grunt and rise above midfield closer to the front.
And that Mercedes frees Valtteri Bottas from servitude and allowed to race and win so we'll know what he's made of rather than what Toto Wolff has made of him.
Hope may spring eternal, but fans and sponsors loathe eternity.
I'll settle for five truly competitive teams, Hulk with a win and a champion no one predicts.
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Post by charleselan on Nov 6, 2018 18:51:02 GMT
Cheers Rob, what made it worse was the fact that I had joined a slot car club at the time and some mouthy clown was all JYS this and JYS that, and I was convinced on the performance of 1970 that Jacky Ickx and Ferrari had it in the bag. JC, did you race a Jacky Ickx Ferrari at the club and beat that clown? René, Believe it or not I did have a Jacky Ickx Ferrari 312B, scratch built with a beautifully painted vacuum formed body shell. However it was to no avail as all the other members raced things that bore no resemblance to any car known to mankind then and today. Most were painted in a hideous metallic green off set by either orange or pink sponge tyres. At that time some idiot in the slot fraternity decided that widened bodies were acceptable, hence we had the term "handling body shells". It took all of three to four months for me to become totally disillusioned with club slot car racing. Some of the more charitable members of the club tried to persuade me to continue and build similar things to them, even giving me their chassis cast offs, which although quite well engineered did nothing for me as I wanted my cars to look like the real thing. Soon afterwards I bought one of the first 1/43rd model kits manufactured in white metal, a Lotus 49B made by a guy called John Day. I say made by him but he was in fact the name behind his company the actual model was mastered by someone else and the castings also done by outside sources. He had all sorts of issues in the production of this model, and always seemed to encounter similar issues over the following decade. John Day actually commissioned me to do a run of instruction sheets for a range of models, but as was often the case with this gentleman I did not get paid even after chasing him down across the UK. Sorry I have gone off in a tangent, and the answer is no I did not beat the clown with my Ickx Ferrari, but it did in the looks department. JC
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