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Post by René on Oct 23, 2018 7:48:15 GMT
there is so much disinformation in F1 that it makes the cold war look like a children's parlour game! That is probably why Vlad loves talking to BCE, to learn some tricks from the old crook!
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Post by robmarsh on Oct 23, 2018 10:15:37 GMT
Rob, what about the fuel suppliers? I understand there is a big performance difference between the premier supplier (eg Shell, Petronas) and other suppliers. I think that may be so René but I don't know what the difference would be, and would it be a lap over race distance, I am not sure. I think the biggest is still in chassis and aero. I find it ironic that in F1 cars are designed in such a way that they can't race each other. Drag racing provides better overtaking opportunities. Something is drastically wrong and all the brains in F1 can't or won't resolve it. This is when the FIA need to step in and say "It will be thus and by then." Like they did before the start of 1983 with flat bottomed cars. They need to call the teams bluff, most have too much riding on it to pull out.
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Post by mikael on Oct 23, 2018 11:47:50 GMT
Engines are split pretty evenly between Renault, Mercedes, Ferrari with Honda currently a sole supplier. In terms of the regulations the engines in the customer cars have to be exactly the same as the works cars. Therefore, apart from the difference between the manufacturers everything should be equal so let's take engines out of the equation. Very interesting thoughts, Rob. But one thing thing that "struck" me regarding the engines its that, the control of them -- with various engine mapping etc. -- is now so complicated that a works team may be in a (much) better position to "figure out" how to use them optimally. But of course, it seems that a well-funded team like Red Bull is not behind the works Renault team at all in that respect. So ... it's complicated ... Just some random thoughts ...
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Post by charleselan on Oct 23, 2018 12:40:40 GMT
In an "Arms Race" those with the largest budgets are always going to come out on top.
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Post by charleselan on Oct 23, 2018 12:58:30 GMT
I have read here and on other portals that many think Esteban Ocon would be a better alternative to Valterri Bottas at MB, or would be much more of a challenge to Lewis Hamilton. Ocon has much support around F1 and is viewed by some (the comedian Jordan included) as a future World Champion.
He has obviously driven very well in his first two seasons in F1, but one has to ask what is the yardstick being used to come to the conclusion that he would ruffle Lewis' feathers? For the most part he has barely shaded Perez, and sometimes the opposite, so how do we rate Sergio Perez? To my way of thinking he is a relatively steady pair of hands when he isn't deliberately running into another competitor, and brings home points, but he isn't on anyone who matters shopping list.
So is Esteban really that good? His current plight is not correct in my opinion, none the less as he is vastly better than some who take up space on the grid, but i don't see anyone bidding millions for his services no matter what Tonto pleads.
Also what of the other French future star M. Pierre Gasly. In the past 24hours Kiwi Brendon Hartley has rather tersely illustrated the fact that in the last four races he has either out qualified him and had the upper hand in races when he hasn't been subject to team orders or bad luck. Apparently he of the citron mouth, Herr Marko, has stated that Hartley has to beat Gasly in every race to keep his seat. So the guy under the RB cosh has to despatch the guy who is being promoted to the top team to partner Max, fathom that one out. In my book if he did that then Pierre would not be the one being promoted to the main team, maybe old citron chops isn't too bright!
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Post by robmarsh on Oct 23, 2018 13:28:43 GMT
Good points Charles and citron mouth is a good description of Marko. I find him one of the more distasteful people in the F1 paddock and he has severe competition believe me. I think he is a bitter, bitter man who does not know how to wield power and his way of destroying careers. It looks like the Red Bull pipe line is beginning to whither.
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Post by charleselan on Oct 23, 2018 14:30:13 GMT
Good points Charles and citron mouth is a good description of Marko. I find him one of the more distasteful people in the F1 paddock and he has severe competition believe me. I think he is a bitter, bitter man who does not know how to wield power and his way of destroying careers. It looks like the Red Bull pipe line is beginning to whither. Thanks Rob. I really find citron mouth Marko to be a very unpleasant individual indeed, and you are correct he is a very; very bitter man. Back in the day i used to like him especially when he was driving in the European 2 litre Sport car Series, he really was quite good. The accident that befell him at Clermont Ferrand was most unfortunate, but at least he came out of it with his life intact. I found a picture of him last evening when driving the Marlboro BRM P153 and he was spinning off onto the grass, so not above making mistakes himself when driving in F1. The power he wields in Red Bull is destructive and is full of spite, people with that mentality should be kept away from all aspect of human interaction. As you also correctly mention the Red Bull pipe line is drying up, and he is now casting his net towards others who have a better and longer sustaining program. He is even having to bring back past "rejects" as a result, pity he dismissed some very good talent when he thought that he had an abundance of new boys coming through. I for one have little doubt that Jean Eric Verne would have been a top flight GP driver by now, a former team manager who ran him and Ricciardo said that Verne was quicker but at that stage not as consistent. What is the old adage you can make a fast driver more complete but cannot make a slower one faster. JC
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Post by René on Oct 23, 2018 16:00:53 GMT
Re. Esteban Ocon, I personally think he is very good and could be the 'real deal'. But I'll admit that is more a feeling than an analytical conclusion. But I have seen flashes of real class driving from him. I know others have the same feeling about Sainz. And I don't think Sainz has it. So it's all very subjective I guess. However, the best driver of this 'new group after Max' must be Leclerc and he is going to my fav team! We'll know soon enough how good Charles really is. As for Mr. Marko, I agree he is not the most likeable man. Strangely though, a few month back he was a guest in a Dutch talkshow and he actually came across as a very nice man who's main job was looking after Max! I know the other side of Helmut but his act was perfect on tele. Most people said afterwards how good it is for Max that someone like Marko looks after him, an educated and eloquent man who will guide 'our Max' through the minefield that is F1... of course most people have no idea.
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Post by charleselan on Oct 23, 2018 16:38:56 GMT
I know that there are far more things that effect relative driver performance when comparisons are being made than just on track at any given day.
Let us look at this scenario. When Max and Carlos Sainz Jnr were teamed together at Toro Rosso, they were as far as I can recall very closely matched, and they had an intense rivalry. To be brutally honest Max has unstitched Ricciardo quite comprehensively this year, and next year he goes to Renault to be teamed up with Nico Hulkenberg who has more or less held sway over Carlos.
By looking at that in its simplest of forms, one might be minded to think that Nico Hulkenberg was on the same level as Max; next year will no doubt prove that, or not!
With regard to Charles Leclerc I have had the feeling all year that this boy is something a bit special, his early career would also indicate this as well. I know this isn't necessarily going to fit well with some folk but if I had been in charge of Ferrari, I would be showing Sebastian the door at the end of this season (contract or no). Signing Charles along with retaining old hand Kimi would have been a sensible pairing. Kimi has been hugely instrumental in getting the car to the level it is at now and he appears more focused than for a long time; and Charles could learn a huge amount from him for the future.
Sebastian's mistakes this year have been calamitous and really not what one expects from a four time World Champion. I have often made supportive comments about Sebastian this year so am not one that is jumping on the band wagon of sticking knives into him, but he really has come up short and for me that error in Austin was the final straw.
René I respect what you say about Marko's appearance on Dutch TV but it is somewhat loaded in that he was pandering to the Dutch audience, and he knows that Max is the next big thing. It is all well and good going onto a TV program with a captive audience and saying all this and that about Max, but any man worth his salt would be doing the same for all of his charges and not favouring one with golden b*lls. He did the same with Vettel, and made Webber feel like an unwanted outcast, a truly appalling managerial style.
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Post by René on Oct 23, 2018 17:43:13 GMT
René I respect what you say about Marko's appearance on Dutch TV but it is somewhat loaded in that he was pandering to the Dutch audience, and he knows that Max is the next big thing. It is all well and good going onto a TV program with a captive audience and saying all this and that about Max, but any man worth his salt would be doing the same for all of his charges and not favouring one with golden b*lls. He did the same with Vettel, and made Webber feel like an unwanted outcast, a truly appalling managerial style. JC, I actually agree what you say about Marko. That's why I called his tv appearence an act and said most people have no idea.
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Post by René on Oct 23, 2018 17:53:04 GMT
. By looking at that in its simplest of forms, one might be minded to think that Nico Hulkenberg was on the same level as Max; next year will no doubt prove that, or not! Mmm, I find this difficult to see if I'm honest. Nico is a very nice bloke (also popular on Dutch tv, his Dutch is excellent ) but he has not reached a podium position in all these years. Others have in the same car. Real winners make their mark early in their career and I'm afraid Nico hasn't.
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Post by chrisb on Oct 24, 2018 6:50:25 GMT
Rene, I would tend to disagree with your sentiments re Nico, as far as I recollect he got pole position in Brazil and was showing the way at Willaims, when they, yet again, made a colossal management mistake in retaining Ruebens and getting rid of Nico, had that not happened and also bear in mind that Nico's height and weight was always against him, a prejudice that has blighted many a driver on the past twenty years. I look forward to seeing him up against Ricciardo whom I also rate.
My problem with favouritism is just how deep is it? Helmut is so loyal to his boss and wants nothing better than to offer him up another superstar. I am surprised that their academy isn't providing another supposed superstar as yet. My problem with Dr Marko is how transient his loyalty to his drivers is. Seb, golden boy, the other Seb, Bourdais that is, discarded and yet matched Vettel. Then Mark got the discard boot, then Seb got the goodbye I have a new star and now it's Danny's turn. What became clear is that none of the discarded drivers slowed down, their cars did, or did they? Too often we don't see the full picture and the Cold war analogy is perfect - does Danny have exactly the same equipment as Max? possibly, but one thing for certain is that for the past 2 seasons he has not had the same support. This theory may be supported if Max's new team-mate starts blowing Max off. There is a wonderful documentary on Jochen, in Austrian but nonetheless is easy to follow, and Dr Marko comes across as sad in it, sad that Jochen was killed and that their rather carefree lifestyle was abruptly halted and bitter that his reasonably promising motor racing career was halted by that accident, but as JC says it could have been worse.
With regards to Seb's errors of judgment, he is trying too hard and is struggling under the pressure of expectation. I would actually agree with the above comment and would have let him go and retained Kimi and Charles
I get the impression that without Niki being around Valteri has become secondary and the fight has gone out of him and is faced with what happened to Massa and a few others, do I stay in a good car, take the bucks, accept my status, don't upset the applecart and retire to a healthy lifestyle.
All these new drivers are excellent racers, but in this one-horse-era, I find it very difficult to differentiate between them and have no idea who is good and who is exceptional. I can work out who isn't, Forced Stroll will be an eye-opener next year
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Post by René on Oct 24, 2018 14:15:51 GMT
Meer geluk volgend jaar, Carl Dankjewel Carl!
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Post by René on Oct 24, 2018 14:31:00 GMT
Rene, I would tend to disagree with your sentiments re Nico, as far as I recollect he got pole position in Brazil and was showing the way at Willaims, when they, yet again, made a colossal management mistake in retaining Ruebens and getting rid of Nico, had that not happened and also bear in mind that Nico's height and weight was always against him, a prejudice that has blighted many a driver on the past twenty years. I look forward to seeing him up against Ricciardo whom I also rate. Chris,
I would really want to see Nico step on the podium, preferrably for a win! I like the guy, I think he is good but I don't see it happening anymore for him. I could be wrong (not the first time ), I actually hope I am wrong but it has taken Nico too long I feel. The Brazilian pole as you mention is often referred to but that was 2010! He was also a bit lucky with the drying track to be honest. And when teamed up with Sergio Perez he wasn't better than the Mexican. Moreover, Sergio outscored Nico in 2015 and 2016 and had two podiums.
But I too look forward seeing Nico and Danny as teammates. Renault certainly has the nicest driver pairing for 2019!
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Post by charleselan on Oct 24, 2018 16:29:00 GMT
Rene, I would tend to disagree with your sentiments re Nico, as far as I recollect he got pole position in Brazil and was showing the way at Willaims, when they, yet again, made a colossal management mistake in retaining Ruebens and getting rid of Nico, had that not happened and also bear in mind that Nico's height and weight was always against him, a prejudice that has blighted many a driver on the past twenty years. I look forward to seeing him up against Ricciardo whom I also rate. Chris,
I would really want to see Nico step on the podium, preferrably for a win! I like the guy, I think he is good but I don't see it happening anymore for him. I could be wrong (not the first time ), I actually hope I am wrong but it has taken Nico too long I feel. The Brazilian pole as you mention is often referred to but that was 2010! He was also a bit lucky with the drying track to be honest. And when teamed up with Sergio Perez he wasn't better than the Mexican. Moreover, Sergio outscored Nico in 2015 and 2016 and had two podiums.
But I too look forward seeing Nico and Danny as teammates. Renault certainly has the nicest driver pairing for 2019! René, Very true about Nico's time with Perez pre Forced Stroll days, however as Chris points out that was when Nico was most hampered by his size and weight, as there were no concessions at that time. I am pleased to say that is now not the case with regard to driver weight, but size will always be a handicap as the designers will not like being compromised. You are correct also about Nico probably being too late to get the leg up to a top tier team, but stranger things have happened in the past. If he does put one over Ricciardo next year then people will really have to re-evaluate him as a driver, at least one thing to maybe look forward to next year, along with a happy Kimi in the Sauber Alfa. JC
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