Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2018 20:07:50 GMT
Chris, I agree on all your points, for the little I may know - Brexit, Africa Twin, GS Boxer and retro bikes. The Triples sound absolutely great. Only to add the bike above seems to me quite a bit more than a retro look bike in a modern suit. That is effectively a modern cafe' racer, as they are called. As retro look bike, Kawasaki have the W800, which is indeed not my cup of tea, likewise the current Triumph Thruxtons or Bonnevilles (the latter which a connoisseur like Peter Egan absolutely loves, have to add).
|
|
|
|
Post by charleselan on Aug 27, 2018 22:57:22 GMT
I am with you both Chris & Lucio on "Brexit" and quality of motorcycles.
The good stuff first; Honda make very well built machines, the quality of my 1999 CBR600 FX is plain to see, as it was on my previous one which was a well used model that reintroduced me to riding back in the early 1990's. The only down side of that bike was the awful gearbox which gave me more false neutrals than I care to remember. Fortunately the new one in '99 was superb and still is. It is far less intimidating size wise than the GS, but once the BMW is on the road it is beautiful.
My cousin Chris' Africa Twin looked very well made indeed and he was very pleased with it, having had umpteen bikes over the past 20 years, mostly Honda's. Adventure bikes really are the ideal tourer with great riding positions and in the right hands very quick.
One of the best built Honda's I have ever seen was the 1100 Blackbird, and what a bike. I had a long test ride on one just prior to purchasing the CBR in 1999 but chose the CBR6 over the Blackbird and Yamaha R6, but always questioned my choice even to this day; it was a very hard decision to make.
"Brexit" and its whole conception is something that annoys me to distraction. I wasn't joking a while back when I suggested that Cameron should have been put in the Tower Of London for folding over to the idiots in his party like Johnson; Grayling; Duncan-Smith and Fox to name but a few.
The EU isn't perfect by far, but to think that the UK can do better out of it is Tom Foolery of the highest order. The problem with the EU is that some premier member states actually take the p*ss, and completely ignore some of the legislation and do exactly what they wish without any recourse. The stupid UK follow everything to the letter and get dumped upon, the stiff upper lip mentality still prevails. As an example British ex-pats in France have been advised to seek a Carte Sejour (EU Membership) which is their right, however the French see fit to make it difficult, or in some departments refuse applications even though the applicants have done exactly as laid out by the French Government.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jamie on Aug 28, 2018 7:25:54 GMT
John, a brilliant last paragraph I must say, summed it up perfectly......we are far better staying in the EU even though it’s a rotten organisation. And how true that some within it are taking the p##s !!!
|
|
|
|
Post by charleselan on Aug 28, 2018 12:06:12 GMT
John, a brilliant last paragraph I must say, summed it up perfectly......we are far better staying in the EU even though it’s a rotten organisation. And how true that some within it are taking the p##s !!! Many thanks Jamie, I speak from the heart on this matter and it is good to know there are many sensible folk out there that share similar views. Like Lucio we sit in an air of discord, not knowing what the future holds because of that blasted referendum. I am pretty laid back and have the attitude of "what will be, will be", because nothing I do can change the course set by others. All I know is that it has already cost me financially due to the devaluation of the GB Pound to Euro, and continues to do so. We then have this worry of a supposed "no deal" which could have huge ramifications for us here, and Lucio back in the UK. Our home here could become worthless and we could end up without any health cover, plus those with private pensions could end up not getting them, as well as endless banking problems across borders. I can understand all those living north of Watford who were disaffected about things in the Uk, where the emphasis is all on London, and the rest of the country can rot. However voting to leave the EU as a vote of protest was crass stupidity and ignorance. The way to deal with that is to vote in a general election and give these "main" parties a severe shock. All those youngsters who did not vote as they felt disenfranchised by the system have had their futures compromised beyond belief. Also all this talk about concerns that a further referendum would result in unrest and anarchy is disgusting and is pandering to the scare mongers and extreme right. Also since when has a 4% majority been a sustainable margin of victory that should hold sway. |
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Aug 28, 2018 16:29:01 GMT
There is nothing more debasing than being forced to go along with the massive stupidity of others.
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill
Although they say hope springs eternal, at times it leaks in the wrong direction. May we all be able to smile after the dust has settled.
Kindest regards, Carl
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2018 16:36:27 GMT
On a personal level, we – my family – stand to lose quite a lot, as we have a fully-paid home here, our jobs, pensions etc, not to mention the cultural attachment , like my son who although is not British-born (he was born in Qatar and has only Italian passport) thinks and feels he’s English (I am not allowed to criticize the England football national team at home!). But it is now become a matter of principle: if to stay here we have to give up rights we already had as EU citizen and compromise my son’s future and opportunities because as a EU citizen he is to all effects an alien, then we will leave. There was a moment, long before the referendum, where with my wife we briefly discussed whether to take up British citizenship, for our son’s sake, and were both quite open minded about it. After the referendum and the wretched show of Westminster politics that ensued, I am afraid I could never give my allegiance to this country, even if we are more British and integrated than many others around us coming from the four corners of the former colonies (now called Commonwealth).
I am and always been a EU supporter, of its ideal in the first place. The practical results of the economic bloc are under the eyes of everybody, they can’t be denied. Places like Ireland, for example, were still in the Middle Age before joining. The fact that xenophobic (fascistic, in fact) demagogues like Johnson and Farage have built a career out of criticizing the EU, unfortunately tell everything about the people who have supported them, rather than “Bvussels”. I don’t think it’s a rotten organization, it’s what the member states make of it. The British government (and people) have always been lukewarm, at best, about it, always complaining to get only advantages, rebates and giving back as little as possible, while more intent to keep a subordinate “special” (ah, delusions…) relationship with the US, instead to build alliances in the EU and their own hegemony within the EU, to contrast the axis Germany-France.
Where I have also lost quite a bit of respect in the British people is in realizing they allegedly voted in the referendum in protest, when they had a general election a year before to do that. You vote in protest, if you must, at the general election in order to change things, not on such a referendum (even more once it was such idiotically promoted by the previous PM). You are just shooting on your feet, voting in protest in a referendum where there is so much at stake for each and every one. Unbelievable.
I have to say, also, that I wasn’t surprised at all the way the referendum went. I saw it coming all along, since years before, and close friends here have explicitly acknowledged that indeed “I did tell so”. In this sense, and looking at the deplorable mess and show of the last two years, it is clear to me that Britain must now leave the EU, have a national conversation on their own future as a nation and people, without the excuse of Brussels. They are in the middle of the tunnel, must come out at the other end and see what they find about themselves. The empire, I’m afraid, won’t be coming back anytime soon, that much is clear.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jamie on Aug 28, 2018 16:50:00 GMT
John, a brilliant last paragraph I must say, summed it up perfectly......we are far better staying in the EU even though it’s a rotten organisation. And how true that some within it are taking the p##s !!! Many thanks Jamie, I speak from the heart on this matter and it is good to know there are many sensible folk out there that share similar views. Like Lucio we sit in an air of discord, not knowing what the future holds because of that blasted referendum. I am pretty laid back and have the attitude of "what will be, will be", because nothing I do can change the course set by others. All I know is that it has already cost me financially due to the devaluation of the GB Pound to Euro, and continues to do so. We then have this worry of a supposed "no deal" which could have huge ramifications for us here, and Lucio back in the UK. Our home here could become worthless and we could end up without any health cover, plus those with private pensions could end up not getting them, as well as endless banking problems across borders. I can understand all those living north of Watford who were disaffected about things in the Uk, where the emphasis is all on London, and the rest of the country can rot. However voting to leave the EU as a vote of protest was crass stupidity and ignorance. The way to deal with that is to vote in a general election and give these "main" parties a severe shock. All those youngsters who did not vote as they felt disenfranchised by the system have had their futures compromised beyond belief. Also all this talk about concerns that a further referendum would result in unrest and anarchy is disgusting and is pandering to the scare mongers and extreme right. Also since when has a 4% majority been a sustainable margin of victory that should hold sway. I still find it hard to believe the vote went the way of Brexit....lots of people, mainly my parent sort of generation, voted purely because of the immigration issue and disregarded any other possible negatives......as if all of a sudden immigration would stop anyway, madness. The Brexit vote remains the one and only time I’ve had cross words with my father-in-law, a man for whom I have the highest regard and respect.....I just couldn’t believe he would vote that way for the most ignorant of reasons. He’s not a stupid man in any sense of the word but, as did many, he voted based on lies told by bent politicians that were all to convienient to believe. I must admit, and it’s probably to my shame, that I had never been to the ballot box in my life until that day. Unfortunately, or fortunately dependant on how you look at it, I have inherited a healthy disrespect for the ruling elite / politicians from my grandfather and wouldn’t give tuppence for any of the self serving, crooked, parasitic POS regardless of which party they stand for, hence I’ve never voted in a general election. And I do realise that you can’t change things by sitting on your hands but it would be like choosing to follow Beelzebub or Mephistopheles.....either choice is damning you for all eternity 🤨 I’d still probably take eternity with either of those two in the fiery pit than spend a minute with May or Corbyn.... |
|
|
|
Post by Jamie on Aug 28, 2018 16:56:39 GMT
On a personal level, we – my family – stand to lose quite a lot, as we have a fully-paid home here, our jobs, pensions etc, not to mention the cultural attachment , like my son who although is not British-born (he was born in Qatar and has only Italian passport) thinks and feels he’s English (I am not allowed to criticize the England football national team at home!). But it is now become a matter of principle: if to stay here we have to give up rights we already had as EU citizen and compromise my son’s future and opportunities because as a EU citizen he is to all effects an alien, then we will leave. There was a moment, long before the referendum, where with my wife we briefly discussed whether to take up British citizenship, for our son’s sake, and were both quite open minded about it. After the referendum and the wretched show of Westminster politics that ensued, I am afraid I could never give my allegiance to this country, even if we are more British and integrated than many others around us coming from the four corners of the former colonies (now called Commonwealth).
I am and always been a EU supporter, of its ideal in the first place. The practical results of the economic bloc are under the eyes of everybody, they can’t be denied. Places like Ireland, for example, were still in the Middle Age before joining. The fact that xenophobic (fascistic, in fact) demagogues like Johnson and Farage have built a career out of criticizing the EU, unfortunately tell everything about the people who have supported them, rather than “Bvussels”. I don’t think it’s a rotten organization, it’s what the member states make of it. The British government (and people) have always been lukewarm, at best, about it, always complaining to get only advantages, rebates and giving back as little as possible, while more intent to keep a subordinate “special” (ah, delusions…) relationship with the US, instead to build alliances in the EU and their own hegemony within the EU, to contrast the axis Germany-France.
Where I have also lost quite a bit of respect in the British people is in realizing they allegedly voted in the referendum in protest, when they had a general election a year before to do that. You vote in protest, if you must, at the general election in order to change things, not on such a referendum (even more once it was such idiotically promoted by the previous PM). You are just shooting on your feet, voting in protest in a referendum where there is so much at stake for each and every one. Unbelievable.
I have to say, also, that I wasn’t surprised at all the way the referendum went. I saw it coming all along, since years before, and close friends here have explicitly acknowledged that indeed “I did tell so”. In this sense, and looking at the deplorable mess and show of the last two years, it is clear to me that Britain must now leave the EU, have a national conversation on their own future as a nation and people, without the excuse of Brussels. They are in the middle of the tunnel, must come out at the other end and see what they find about themselves. The empire, I’m afraid, won’t be coming back anytime soon, that much is clear.
I agree with a lot you say Lucio and it’s a terrible position for you to be in. I think we were ripe for a revolution but many of the British public made a huge mistake in picking leaving the EU as the poster boy.......absolutely ridiculous. However, I do think the EU has many problems and we were a poor cousin, probably because we never committed fully in our heart, but to leave is madness. We should have stayed, used the referendum as a warning shot and tried to negotiate the position we wanted. |
|
|
|
Post by chrisb on Aug 28, 2018 19:34:22 GMT
the tragedy that is unfolding is real and the more stupid as every day passes, with these clueless numbskulls standing to make even more money out of everyone else's misery- I loathe these grubby greedy self-centred egotistical morons, aka the misogynist rees-mogodon who uses his belief system to suit his need and sets up a hedge fund in Dublin to avoid paying UK tax, another "good Brexiter" not quite how I would address his Lordshutup, and as for Boris the Bodger words fail me, his new found friend the US President has shown him the way, so we can expect more racism more prejudice thanks to the Bodger's quest for power - these people deserve prison,
There are many sayings that sum up things, but my most important argument was simple: who took us into Europe? who negotiated most of the treaties including Maastricht and who continued to screw up, oh the political party who are messing up the exit, on the question of immigration and bear in mind my ancestry is Scottish French and German [with a large dose of Yorkshire - a separate entity] I would point out that EU immigration accounts for less than 48% - the vast majority comes from outside EU borders - whose rules are not governed by EU legislation, but people had made their foolish minds up and I have subsequently distanced myself from several acquaintances who voted to remain, and then there is the actual fraud that went on, had that occurred in somewhere like Africa all hell would let loose, but because the playing fields of Eton does not permit such things - we carry on, and then there was the Beeb, Farage appeared over 75 times on the run up, remainders leaders 6 times, now I don't know how accurate a figure that was but I do know there was an outcry about it in the Guardian and we were told 'you lost - get used to it' NO I will not, it is still my demoncratic right to protest - Boris the Bodger hasn't cancelled that right yet
The EU isn't perfect but it is a hell of a lot better than the alternative and the only way it can change is if you are involved with it,
Lucio - that sounds an awful situation to be in and I hope for a positive outcome to befall us, however, as Jamie says maybe we need a revolution- the realistic party who doesn't extract the rise from the population nor does it have it taken off them
|
|
|
|
Post by charleselan on Aug 29, 2018 15:45:15 GMT
There is nothing more debasing than being forced to go along with the massive stupidity of others. "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill Although they say hope springs eternal, at times it leaks in the wrong direction. May we all be able to smile after the dust has settled. Kindest regards, Carl Brilliant Carl, yet another peach from the hand of Mr Slate  . |
|
|
|
Post by charleselan on Aug 29, 2018 16:01:14 GMT
Chris,
With the greatest of respect to my learned friends in the 40 something age demographic many of that group seem to think that to protest or complain is a futile process, and some even wish to deride those that wish to stand up for what they believe to be right.
This might seem a bit weird, but can you imagine that lot put back in time to 1939 when Hitler invaded Poland, there would have been no WW11 and everyone would have been living under the "Jack Boot". You only have to look at the Facebook page of Radio 2 to see these useless morons denigrating those that are trying to make their point about the dire standard of that once great radio station. The attitude is "Suck it Up" or "why bother as nothing will change", god help our future generations when we have a populace who have this mentality.
It is your right, and for all of us to protest when we are dissatisfied with the cr*p that others have created through their ill educated moronic stupidity, and even worse through the corruption of individuals who see a means to make financial gain out of a situation, no matter what the consequences are for the majority.
Rees-Mogg typifies everything that I detest in Uk society, cannot abide those like him with that horrible plummy accent and patronising attitude. I grew up, and spent most of my life surrounded by the gains of the Landed Gentry; one in particular had a family inheritance that came from the slave trade and tobacco production. All they wish to do is grow their ownership of land and property, all at the expense of the local community.
|
|
|
|
Post by robmarsh on Aug 29, 2018 17:22:09 GMT
Thanks for the interesting comments on bikes and Brexit. I learnt a lot. Sounds like there are very few good govts around these days. Hope some of you will still be in the UK next year as my wife and I are planning to come over next summer.
|
|
|
|
Post by chrisb on Aug 29, 2018 18:18:35 GMT
John, my neighbours who are both ex-teachers and are now happily retired regularly attended protest marches from the 60's onwards.
It is our right to say no, I do not agree, the reaction I received to my protests of the corruption of the 'vote' was a volley of abuse, mainly saying "you lost, get over it" but it was the frightening lack of understanding that disturbed me most, they didn't like at all the right to your own opinion and how you can express it, i.e. protest their stupidity, and it just beggars belief that people don't actually learn? I dread next year - I really do, I do think your analogy with the 30's is spot on, we protested Mosley and his blackshirts and got rid of him and quite frankly we need to start uniting and do it again,
My paternal Grandfather went to Eton and Sandhurst, served with distinction in both world wars and whilst I never met him according to my family he was a most unpleasant man, bitter and twisted that the fortunes of the family disappeared with the 1929 crash, but he did stand up for his beliefs and that I respect. Oh, and he earned quite a few awards - But I was fortunate in that my other Grandfather was a wonderful man, who was very successful but kept his feet firmly planted, I have a wonderful photo of him meeting the Queen Mother and I got to meet many an industrial chief, all shared the same attitude and were all such nice people - fond memories and not an old Etonian amongst them.
John, we share many things, one such thing is our loathing of that appalling hypocrite Rees-Mogg.
Rob, it would be wonderful if we could all meet up!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2018 18:22:54 GMT
Aye aye, we should organize a get together when Rob is over here.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jamie on Aug 29, 2018 21:15:28 GMT
Aye aye, we should organize a get together when Rob is over here. Absolutely 👍 |
|
.