British Grand Prix - Silverstone

[Carl]

Aug 26, 2018 18:40:12 GMT @lucio said:

The wet experience I will always remember was in 2004 in Alsace. On my way to Italy from Guildford on a Virago 750 (I liked its looks and didn’t know better…), my parents were waiting for me in Switzerland near Basle and found myself after Metz on the way to Nancy instead of Strasbourg [there is a stretch around Metz where it is still – as last year’s - easy to miss the right deviation and finding yourself going in the wrong direction, like Paris or Nancy, instead of Reims-Strasbourg].

Instead to turn back, I decided to carry on and make it through the Vosges mountains, through Saint-Die’, to get to Colmar. After Saint-Die’, towards Le Bonhomme, I found myself into the pouring rain, buckets really, heavy August traffic, in the middle of the mountains, climbs, downhills, switchbacks, the lot. It became an exercise of concentration, keeping cool head and restraint, the bike, brakes and tires not suited to the conditions. I got completely drenched, literally to my pants. The boots took the following full two days under the sun (great weather as soon as I crossed in Switzerland, needless to say…) to dry out, outside my mother’s garden window.

What I recall is not the stress of riding in those difficult conditions, but the exhilaration and elation in doing it, I just felt great. Would do it again tomorrow morning, if I could.

Lucio,

I've had two motorcycles, a Honda CB500 Four and, ten years later, a Suzuki GS550 ("Suzy-Q"), and both were my only transportation.  There were days I chose to stay home, but never missed work and enjoyed riding in the rain.  When I rode the Suzuki, I had wet-weather gear that kept me warm and dry and allowed me to completely enjoy the exhilaration you mention.  The careful attention demanded on wet roads is very rewarding when you safely arrive.

These bikes could have been mine, although I outfitted Suzy-Q with compressed air front forks, Koni rear shocks and a 4 into 1 exhaust header.

I still love motorcycles, but hate traffic congestion and may by now have exhausted my luck.

                                                                                                                                          Cheers, Carl

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[Deleted]

Great bikes Carl, I love the Japanese in-line fours from the first Kawa Z1 to the various CBs. The Honda CB750, the Nighthawk is the one I really would like.

[Deleted]

Harleys, like some other manufacturers (BMW, Ducati), have built up a “brand”, they sell a mental state (can’t find a better definition) rather than just motorcycles and they make it a very expensive state, by just looking at the steep escalation of prices from the base model (almost never available) to the different incremental stages (Harley) or versions.

For me, now, what I would like is a light bike (ideally under 200 kg), with a big tank (20 litres at least), little electronics to reduce parts that cannot be maintained by myself (and that can break), relatively long service intervals. And suitable for long distance riding, hence capability to maintain highway speeds all day long and not overly tiring for the rider. Not easy to combine all the requirements in one model.

One example: Honda NC750X. Very good mpg, DCT gearbox (sort of automatic, very good for commuting into London), heavier than 200kg (almost 250), small tank (14 litres), but great mpg (it’s half Honda Jazz’ engine, a car one). Honda’s are all very good quality (the best, with Yamaha close second) but are all comparatively heavier than the Japanese competition.

Another: Kawasaki Versys 300. Light, 175kg. Big tank. Heavy revving (it’s the small Ninja’s engine), so short maintenance intervals with valve check required (costly). The Versys 600 is the best of the lot, a great bike for long distance and good for a bit of hooliganism once there.

I am increasingly attracted by the big scooters. The Yamaha TMax is great, but too expensive, almost a sportsbike performance, very bad mpg. The XMax 300 (better that the 400) is less extreme and a better overall proposition. The new Suzuki Burgman 400 is very good too. Problem with these (for my “requirements”), they are usually heavier than the limit above (the XMax 300 is about right), but main issue is they all have small tanks (usually no more than 14 litres). Not sure whether they can handle 80 mph all day long (the smaller capacity ones obviously most likely not).

One thing I would like to do is to get to the North Cape, through Norway. Rest a couple of days, check the bike. Then attempt North Cape-Gibraltar within 72 hours. I know. I know.

[Carl]

Aug 26, 2018 23:35:01 GMT @lucio said:

Harleys, like some other manufacturers (BMW, Ducati), have built up a “brand”, they sell a mental state (can’t find a better definition) rather than just motorcycles and they make it a very expensive state, by just looking at the steep escalation of prices from the base model (almost never available) to the different incremental stages (Harley) or versions.

For me, now, what I would like is a light bike (ideally under 200 kg), with a big tank (20 litres at least), little electronics to reduce parts that cannot be maintained by myself (and that can break), relatively long service intervals. And suitable for long distance riding, hence capability to maintain highway speeds all day long and not overly tiring for the rider. Not easy to combine all the requirements in one model.

One example: Honda NC750X. Very good mpg, DCT gearbox (sort of automatic, very good for commuting into London), heavier than 200kg (almost 250), small tank (14 litres), but great mpg (it’s half Honda Jazz’ engine, a car one). Honda’s are all very good quality (the best, with Yamaha close second) but are all comparatively heavier than the Japanese competition.

Another: Kawasaki Versys 300. Light, 175kg. Big tank. Heavy revving (it’s the small Ninja’s engine), so short maintenance intervals with valve check required (costly). The Versys 600 is the best of the lot, a great bike for long distance and good for a bit of hooliganism once there.

I am increasingly attracted by the big scooters. The Yamaha TMax is great, but too expensive, almost a sportsbike performance, very bad mpg. The XMax 300 (better that the 400) is less extreme and a better overall proposition. The new Suzuki Burgman 400 is very good too. Problem with these (for my “requirements”), they are usually heavier than the limit above (the XMax 300 is about right), but main issue is they all have small tanks (usually no more than 14 litres). Not sure whether they can handle 80 mph all day long (the smaller capacity ones obviously most likely not).

One thing I would like to do is to get to the North Cape, through Norway. Rest a couple of days, check the bike. Then attempt North Cape-Gibraltar within 72 hours. I know. I know.

My Suzuki was outstanding overall, a real canyon demon after the modifications, weighed 430 lbs / 195 kg dry and at the time was state of the art.  Larger, somewhat heavier bikes are more comfortable long distance rides and I've seen some really cool big scooters, but even a big scooter is more practical close to home.

...John Sebastian says it best in song:

Did you ever have to make up your mind?
And pick up on one and leave the other behind?
It's not often easy and not often kind.
Did you ever have to make up your mind?

Did you ever have to finally decide?
And say yes to one and let the other one ride?
There's so many changes and tears you must hide.
Did you ever have to finally decide?

Sometimes you really dig a girl the moment you kiss her,
And then you get distracted by her older sister.
When in walks her father and takes you in line,
And says, "Better go on home, son, and make up your mind."

And then you bet you'd better finally decide.
And say yes to one and let the other one ride.
There's so many changes and tears you must hide.
Did you ever have to finally decide? 

- The Lovin' Spoonful

[chrisb]

wonderful stories chaps, a lot of respect Lucio, I am a fairly regular visitor to the Vosges and was there again this year, superb roads and a lot of respect from other riders, it is interesting in France, actually in most of Europe and Scotland I get acknowledgment and greetings from other riders, love the way the French do it either with the leg or the peace sign, but in England it has a sense of elitism to it, Harley riders are inconsistent, some do some don't - a group won't, BMW riders - if on the GS's generally don't but others do, the sports bikers - the would be Rossi's generally don't, - talking of which I was on the B500 last year and one of the group had a best kept/ cared for bike I had seen, [actually second but that is another story] a BMW RR, the only problem was he was a pretty awful rider, who was mighty in a straight line and 'less-so' on a corner, unfortunately I got stuck behind him on my Sprint, all over him like a rash on the bends and lost out on the straights- tadge frustrating - so had to go back this year, lots of fun! 

Mat Oxley, rides a scooter now as it is so much easier to commute with and I can see that, he was last talking of getting an electric one for the linear acceleration but the lack of noise would be a concern to me, I like light bikes that you can throw around but need to be around 120bhp and 20 litres of fuel to be ideal, for my weight and ability and nowadays given gravity they have to be a lot more upright - I do like my Triumph Tiger 1050 but have also considered the 800's because they are light and handle pretty well and IMHO look good, although next year I will probably plump for the Tiger Sport - I do like that bit of extra oomph 

North Cape to Gibraltar? sounds interesting - I would love to explore the eastern European countries a bit more, as well as Spain/ Portugal, which is fast becoming my planned trip for next year - along with the Irish coast trip.-

Carl, love the Lovin' Spoonful and Spotify was playing it the other day along with Jethro Tull's "too old to rock-n-roll to young to die" - am I hell! rock'n'roll lives!!

[Deleted]

Mat Oxley rides a Yamaha TMax, they tried to stole it last year, I think, he wrote about it.

Of course, 120bhp are a great thing to have when riding all day at 80-plus mph, especially across the Continent, but I have this idea to do more with less.

[the backdrop of all the above, and Carl's Lovin' Spoonful great reference, is that I have a young boy I will likely have to put into private school in a couple of years time... priorities...]

[Deleted]

Talking about the in-line fours and the Nighthawk.

Now all the rage is about the “adventure” kind of bikes. It’s a niche that was created from scratch by BMW with the GS and everybody little by little followed. Fine. The GS these days is a very refined machine, quality-wise perhaps not at Honda’s levels (from what I can read online), but outstanding bikes nonetheless. The Adventure has a 30 litres tank (great, even too much). Problems: heavy, a behemoth of more than 250-260kg (without accessories and fuel); maintenance costs, I am reading of more than 1000 pounds for a service; too much electronic wizardry (reliability issues); and it costs, a lot.

Honda went back into GS’ territory a couple of years ago with the new incarnation of the Africa Twin. I really liked the bike, from the start. Went to the dealer few times, at Farnham and Crawley, told them it needed a 22-24 litres tank to be almost perfect. It was slightly smaller than the GS, less electronics. But only 18.8 litres tank! And the suspect, then confirmed, of not great mpg. The new version has a tank of 24 litres (perfect size, in my view, for that kind of bike).

Main issue with the adventure concept is that I don’t go off road, no way with behemoths heavier than 240kg. I would like to see a mid-sized road touring bike.

This is where the Nighthawk concept comes back into the picture. They don’t do it anymore. But that is one segment they should exploit, beside the fashionable and legitimate “adventure” one. A segment of bikes around 700-800cc wholly road-oriented, good for commuting and travel, with modern technology: refined and efficient motors with decent bhp and good mpg, good-sized tanks and available aftermarket to make it personal.

The suspect is that the Africa Twin is to Honda what the Nighthawk and the various CBs 750 to 1000 used to be in their listing, in other words mutually exclusive. So, we won’t get a new, mid-sized CB for quite a while, if at all. Pity.

[charleselan]

Lucio,

The Kawasaki Z900 is a very desirable modern classic now, I would love one. Scott's grand father had a beauty back in the 1980's and rode to over to the TT races one year, always wanted one since.

Another cousin of mine, very like our Chris here on RRT with advanced rider certs etc, has a new Africa Twin. He came over to visit us on it last year along with his elder brother who was on his new NC750X. The latter chosen due to family inherited arthritis in the arms, something i also suffer from which prevents me from doing long rides. Both excellent bikes, particularly the Africa Twin which felt and looked far less unwieldy than my R1200GS.

I always like Honda motorcycles and as you say the build quality is superb, far better than any other Japanese manufacturer, although some have improved a lot in recent years. I had a somewhat strong debate with a guy on the MS forum about this matter which in the end helped me take my leave of that site, but there you go.

JC

[Deleted]

JC,

Honda are the top as far as quality, both bikes and cars, don't understand who says otherwise. Everything I have read in the bikes forums or the reliability surveys in the magazines, return the fact Honda build quality is ahead of the rest, which in turn obviously have to catch up somehow. The reason Honda's bikes are on average slightly heavier than the competition, is exactly the build quality.

I really, really like the new Africa Twin, I don't care if they sell it as an adventure bike, it's a great road tourer. If I didn't have a child (and the small matter of Brexit hanging over us) I would have pulled the trigger last year.

Kawasaki Z900 - thank you for bringing it to my attention, I have overlooked it.

Look at it, the Z900RS, this is a bike almost perfect: Modern retro looks and technology, four cylinders, 17 litres tank, 110bhp, 215kg, single rear spring/damper unit suspension, adjustable suspensions . It costs as much as a Yamaha TMax scooter (!), but it's not just a proper bike, it's a great one. A windshield and not too intrusive rear luggage, and it's ready to go. Now I need to investigate it further. Beautiful.

[Deleted]

How did I miss this beauty?

www.pipeburn.com/home/2018/03/24/kawasaki-2018-z900rs-review.html

bikereview.com.au/review-2018-kawasaki-z900rs/

www.thedrive.com/new-cars/17625/the-kawasaki-z900rs-is-modern-performance-and-tech-with-retro-styling-and-just-enough-of-everything

bikereview.com.au/history-kawasaki-legend-z1-900-new-york-steak/

[charleselan]

I have got a little behind with the latest road bike releases Lucio, and was unaware of that beauty, a stunning bike if I may say so. It has many nods to the original 1970's version, and another version shows the latest Retro fitted with exhausts somewhat like the original.

You must feel the same uncertainty about things regarding "Brexit" as we do, as we are in a sort of reverse situation from you, the whole darn thing is so bl**dy stupid its makes me want to explode!

[Deleted]

Yes, Brexit is very unsettling on a personal level, it made us reconsider all we thought about Britain and its people. I grew up as a staunch Anglophile, and always associated Britain with pragmatism and tolerance, instead after twenty years found ourselves in the middle of a such ideological delusion. Because of this realization, I could never take the British citizenship, as many friends and acquaintances have done in the circumstance. We haven't done anything about it, we haven't applied for permanent residence, as we came here as EU citizen and still are. We are closely monitoring how things are developing and are pretty much ready for every solution at this point, however hard it may be.

[Deleted]

Stunning bike indeed. Four cylinders and only 215kg, less than the Yamaha XMax 300 scooter, amazing.

[chrisb]

not wishing to get into a political discussion but as someone who campaigned and supported the 'remain' side of the fence and who is totally disgusted with what happened, still cannot believe that the stupidity and lies that the 52% of those who voted bought into and some still do. Despite the fact that so many of the lies that were sold and bought have been proved just that- lies. Which is why I am still considering a move from England, was I 20 years younger I would have gone by now. What gets me more than anything is that they don't have a clue what they've done, the mess it will bring and the cost it will inflict, arghh and sigh - I despair and hope for the day we come to our senses. 

When Motorcycle tour leaders, who ride 30,40,000 miles a year, choose Honda Africa Twins you have to pay attention to their choice. I do like them, the handling is very good, the delivery smooth and the build quality superb. But I love my triples and that's my choice.

A few years ago the Tour guides used to say that BMW's were the make most likely to break down, you don't hear that so much now and the torque of the GS is impressive - but having tested a Boxer RS1200 I would not be looking at these. I do like the KTM adventurer and they are bloody quick and handle really well, but Retro style I am yet to be convinced, in cars I am definitely into and would love the money to buy an Eagle or similar. I know several people with Triumph Thruxton's and they look great, sound great and are nice for that Sunday afternoon trundle but not my cup of tea. Saying that Kawasaki look like they have done a brilliant job and it looks great.

[chrisb]

there is a great article by Max on MS online as to why the race at Silverstone was canceled, it really is a timely reminder just how callous yesteryear was towards the riders and as I said previously one of the great things of modern motorsport is not having to read obituaries every Monday and the ghoul hunters have gone elsewhere.