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Post by René on Feb 17, 2018 9:22:33 GMT
Actually Rene I had to look for the halo almost. My eye was drawn to the lines of the car first and the way black accentuates the swoopy lines of the car. I am sure that is nowhere near the final version of the halo. I do think the indycar version would be better. Rob, although I don't really like the halo and would prefer the Indy screen, I personally have more issues with the size of the modern cars than the halo. I find the extreme stretchend and overweight cars much more an issue than cockpit protection to be honest. The length has increased so much over the last few years it is almost unbelieveable. Even in miniature the difference is huge. I have a few modern Grand Prix slot cars and they are almost undriveable on my twisty home track. I have a wooden track so there is no magnetic downforce either and those long cars are hopeless!
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Post by chrisb on Feb 17, 2018 10:25:38 GMT
Rene, there is a clear reason for me why Team Lotus was always my favourite - although Colin pushed the limits to infinity - they were light, highly manoeuvrable and sophisticated for their era, a real 'driver's car, I think Stirling made some comments to that effect once, these modern day things look like buses and I miss the compactness of a decent F1 car - the smoothness and the flow, the reality is these modern F1 cars do not appeal and aren't attractive, but then we are all aware of F1's shortcomings, they do remind me Rene in a strange way of the front-engined cars of the late 50's when Cooper's started to breakthrough and broke their grip.
what is equally worrying is now MotoGP, with aero creeping ever closer to fairings and bits and bobs it is also starting to lose it's classic beautiful lines,
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Post by René on Feb 17, 2018 12:25:24 GMT
Look at the difference in length! These are pretty accurate 1/32 scale models and just compare the 2015 car with the 2002 car and the 1976 car. And then to think the cars have become even longer!
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Post by mikael on Feb 17, 2018 12:44:06 GMT
Look at the difference in length! These are pretty accurate 1/32 scale models and just compare the 2015 car with the 2002 car and the 1976 car. And then to think the cars have become even longer! Very interesting, René! This gives a very clear picture of the evolution.
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Post by robmarsh on Feb 17, 2018 13:12:59 GMT
Look at the difference in length! These are pretty accurate 1/32 scale models and just compare the 2015 car with the 2002 car and the 1976 car. And then to think the cars have become even longer!
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Post by robmarsh on Feb 17, 2018 16:08:43 GMT
Wow these current cars are really huge-stupidly so. A short wheelbase car like the 312T looks much more aggressive, punchy, lithe and animal like. The 2018 cars are akin to a hippo compared to a cheetah.
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Post by charleselan on Feb 17, 2018 21:40:40 GMT
Fantastic comparative shots of the cars over the decades. Truly amazing to see the superb Ferrari 312T2 alongside the 2015 Fiat Ducato. It is totally absurd that this has been allowed to evolve, and yet no one even considers it to be a problem in the bubble that is current F1.
When Oh! when are these people going to get a grip on reality.
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Post by Carl on Feb 17, 2018 22:08:09 GMT
Rene, there is a clear reason for me why Team Lotus was always my favourite - although Colin pushed the limits to infinity - they were light, highly manoeuvrable and sophisticated for their era, a real 'driver's car, I think Stirling made some comments to that effect once, these modern day things look like buses and I miss the compactness of a decent F1 car - the smoothness and the flow, the reality is these modern F1 cars do not appeal and aren't attractive, but then we are all aware of F1's shortcomings, they do remind me Rene in a strange way of the front-engined cars of the late 50's when Cooper's started to breakthrough and broke their grip. what is equally worrying is now MotoGP, with aero creeping ever closer to fairings and bits and bobs it is also starting to lose it's classic beautiful lines, Well said, Sir Chris, pushing the boundaries of eloquence as Chapman did with design.
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Post by Jamie on Feb 18, 2018 7:38:59 GMT
Thanks to Rene for posting the shots of the current and previous generation models , it really shows up the differences in wheelbase length as did the shots of the Merc and mid-90's Benetton posted a while back. Jeeeez, the latest generation cars look completely out of proportion don't they......ugly as sin itself. While I agree with Rob that the matt black on the Williams helps it look 'swoopier' (thats not a word), my eye is drawn to that abomination of a front wing straight away - how the hell have the FIA allowed things to go this far? Its not only ridiculous looking, but anti-racing in the extreme...anyone with half a brain can see that that thing will lose most of its downforce following another car and is likely to be a fragile as a wafer thin china doll....... I love formula 1 and I'm still like a cat on a hot tin roof waiting for the new season but it really can't go on like this for much longer. At the moment F1 is a technical exercise and not a racing formula - pure and simple. It would be better off running to a sprint / hillclimb format with FTD run offs. Lets see who's fastest around a given lap, give them the trophy and get it over with so we can all watch Indycar for some racing this year. I'm beginning to despair on the technical direction of F1 and hope that Ross Brawn makes the necessary changes quickly - the problem is F1 is like the biggest of cruise liners and it seems impossible to turn the bloody thing around........sense has got to prevail soon surely?? I sincerely hope so but wonder how much 'common sense' there is in the F1 paddock, despite the undoubted genius on display. Anyway, I'm off to do an audition tape for the TV show 'Grumpy old men'
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Post by robmarsh on Feb 18, 2018 9:28:31 GMT
Bravo Jamie
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Post by robmarsh on Feb 18, 2018 9:34:19 GMT
Gentlemen
Towards the end of last year I invited the founder members to join a superbru competition to predict the winners and placings of each GP. Points are scored for each round and acknowledgement made to the best (yellow cap) and worst (wooden spoon) for each round. Points from each round are carried forward towards a year end total whereby a league winner is announced. Last year we only had two races so it was more of a trial run. There is no money required and I suggest we keep it that way. Some of you may have already received e mails for this years comp and if you want to take part then follow the instructions. There is no requirement to take part but it can be a lot of fun and give us another topic to talk on outside of the GPs themselves. If you have not received an e mail from "superbru" and you want to enter then please send me an e mail to threet@mweb.co.za and I will sort it out.
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Post by chrisb on Feb 18, 2018 10:02:31 GMT
Rene, that has wonderfully captured everything- and that is where words are necessary - wow the difference, I have kinda nicknamed the current breed 'quick buses' but in reality they are bulbous hippos
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Post by chrisb on Feb 18, 2018 10:14:26 GMT
Jamie, I'm already on there! I signed up last year and grudgingly they accepted me!
Sir Jackie asked a few years ago 'what does Mercedes get out of this domination?" and advocated their retirement - the amount of bitterness and vitriol that evoked was interesting, before my time but F1 created a blind alley in 1950/1- so simply switched to F2 and I live in hope, but sadly my enthusiasm died a few years ago and prefer to watch historic racing [ the Donington meeting especially is great] as there is more racing going on that series, but I miss F1, I wasn't a great fan of the V8's but loved the V10's and a number of us protested against their removal, [why didn't they simply reduce the revs and fuel limits??] and these things have just developed into unwieldy monsters, that carry loads of power [as Mark Hughes once reminded me] but power without grace Mark, is boring, you do wonder what Fifa and Ross are thinking? Todt is no mans fool, his climb from co-driver at Pug to el supremo shows his ability and the T16 was some car,
so, question? would F1 be better off without the car manufacturers?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 18:33:57 GMT
so, question? would F1 be better off without the car manufacturers? No, but it would be worse off if only them would be racing. F1 thrived thanks to the garagisti and Ferrari, but then Grand Prix racing wouldn't exist without the Merc in the 1910s, Fiat in the 1920s, Alfas in the '20s and '30s, and the Silver Arrows before the war. The problem is that only manufacturers now can afford to do F1. Skill and talent is not enough anymore, it needs an industrial dimension and scale to only hope to make it. It's a closed shop and it will stay that way. Think Brawn will change things? Think again.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 18:42:27 GMT
The new Ferrari, which will be unveiled on Thursday, will be all red like the 312 in 1969, no white due to the withdrawal of the Spanish bank and change in the tobacco graphics. It's expected the wings will be all red too, just a touch of grey as on the Ducatis. Longer wheelbase.
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