Dan Gurney

[Carl]

John Charles,

Your analyses, as always, are to the point and edifying.

-Carl

[chrisb]

Valentin, I have looked through my numerous books /articles on Jimmy as I know I have somewhere his comments on that accident atBrands, which incidentally I actually saw - as I was with my grumpy older Brother on south bank watching the whole thing, I was devastated by my brother being a Brabham fan wasn't, I seem to remember Jimmy saying something about testing the new Dunlops and getting in a mud rut off line because he was trying to get back on the track, foot still accelerating,

et al, their affection and respect was so evident, maybe Jackie and Graham spent more time with Jimmy but I always felt it was Dan who was the one Jimmy knew if he beaten he'd done well - great photos of Dan and Jimmy together - i do love the 1964 Belgium GP ones but also the Sebring saloon car race also 64 and the two of them larking around in the pits - fond memories

not wanting to take anything away from Dan, but in response to the comment about Jimmy not liking to mix it up, well - as a rule let's face it he wasn't exactly used to it, and that was his tactic, to just drive away at the start but one just has to look at 1962 German GP, the 1966 Dutch GP and [ok best car but] 1967 Italian GP, not to mention numerous saloon races to dismiss that - I don't remember John saying that but I do remember Jack Brabham saying something on those lines and Chris Amon after the 1968 Tasman series saying that when he could pressurise Jimmy he noted that Jimmy seemed to get a bit ragged under pressure, although Jimmy still won

Dan's height was a distinct disadvantage but that marvellous 1964 season did see him win a couple of times which was a thought - but for reliability who would have been champion that year?

Question, had Dan stayed with Jack for 1966 would he have been WDC at least once, after all I think he fully deserved it

[Carl]

Jan 19, 2018 11:05:05 GMT chrisb said:

Valentin, I have looked through my numerous books /articles on Jimmy as I know I have somewhere his comments on that accident atBrands, which incidentally I actually saw - as I was with my grumpy older Brother on south bank watching the whole thing, I was devastated by my brother being a Brabham fan wasn't, I seem to remember Jimmy saying something about testing the new Dunlops and getting in a mud rut off line because he was trying to get back on the track, foot still accelerating,

et al, their affection and respect was so evident, maybe Jackie and Graham spent more time with Jimmy but I always felt it was Dan who was the one Jimmy knew if he beaten he'd done well - great photos of Dan and Jimmy together - i do love the 1964 Belgium GP ones but also the Sebring saloon car race also 64 and the two of them larking around in the pits - fond memories

not wanting to take anything away from Dan, but in response to the comment about Jimmy not liking to mix it up, well - as a rule let's face it he wasn't exactly used to it, and that was his tactic, to just drive away at the start but one just has to look at 1962 German GP, the 1966 Dutch GP and [ok best car but] 1967 Italian GP, not to mention numerous saloon races to dismiss that - I don't remember John saying that but I do remember Jack Brabham saying something on those lines and Chris Amon after the 1968 Tasman series saying that when he could pressurise Jimmy he noted that Jimmy seemed to get a bit ragged under pressure, although Jimmy still won

Dan's height was a distinct disadvantage but that marvellous 1964 season did see him win a couple of times which was a thought - but for reliability who would have been champion that year?

Question, had Dan stayed with Jack for 1966 would he have been WDC at least once, after all I think he fully deserved it

Chris,

Wonderfully told from your own experience!  All of us would love to have been there despite your brother's temperament   

Cheers, Carl

[Deleted]

[René]

Jan 19, 2018 11:05:05 GMT chrisb said:

but in response to the comment about Jimmy not liking to mix it up, well - as a rule let's face it he wasn't exactly used to it, and that was his tactic, to just drive away at the start

I find this an interesting comment. If I may transpose this to modern times, this makes me think immediately of Vettel. Sebastian has often been critisized, certainly during his Red Bull years, for not winning races from further down the grid or being a 'racer like Alonso'. But we all know when Seb takes the lead at the start, he's virtually unbeatable. He is able to just drive away from the pack and then consolidate. That is his tactic. Not much different.

[chrisb]

Rene, yes i agree it is a similar tactic, and having the ability to do this obviously helps, Ascari was really the originator of this apres-war way of winning and I have to say I am forever fascinated just how one driver can do this - with not necessarily the best or quickest car, although it does help if it is, but with their talent, obviously one can't expect a Sauber driven by the greatest of his era to win so the car has to be quick but not always the quickest- but it the drivers perfection that I am in awe of, how they enter the corner, curve - Jimmy made a telling point once, saying something like, it isn't how early I brake that necessarily makes the difference it is how soon i come off the brakes does, I don't know if Seb is the same,

there was a picture in MS or Autosport after the 1967 British GP, where it showed I think John Surtees, Chris Amon and Jimmy taking the same curve and the caption quoted, neat, neater and neatest that is why I have always revered the likes of Jimmy, Alain, Jackie - and I don't know if you include Seb in that or not?

[chrisb]

Lucio, what a magnificent photo, thank you

[chrisb]

Carl, 50 odd years on, he hasn't changed,

[Deleted]

Jan 20, 2018 5:00:59 GMT chrisb said:

Rene, yes i agree it is a similar tactic, and having the ability to do this obviously helps, Ascari was really the originator of this apres-war way of winning and I have to say I am forever fascinated just how one driver can do this - with not necessarily the best or quickest car, although it does help if it is, but with their talent, obviously one can't expect a Sauber driven by the greatest of his era to win so the car has to be quick but not always the quickest- but it the drivers perfection that I am in awe of, how they enter the corner, curve - Jimmy made a telling point once, saying something like, it isn't how early I brake that necessarily makes the difference it is how soon i come off the brakes does, I don't know if Seb is the same,

there was a picture in MS or Autosport after the 1967 British GP, where it showed I think John Surtees, Chris Amon and Jimmy taking the same curve and the caption quoted, neat, neater and neatest that is why I have always revered the likes of Jimmy, Alain, Jackie - and I don't know if you include Seb in that or not?

Vincenzo Lancia was the pioneer, breaking the opposition în the first 2 laps at Gordon Benett 1905, Bordino took this style further. Than came Ascari în 1924. But I wouldn't call it ă style. When you are sure of yourself and the car is fast this is the way to do it. But leading from the front is not an easy target

[René]

Jan 20, 2018 5:00:59 GMT chrisb said:

Rene, yes i agree it is a similar tactic, and having the ability to do this obviously helps, Ascari was really the originator of this apres-war way of winning and I have to say I am forever fascinated just how one driver can do this - with not necessarily the best or quickest car, although it does help if it is, but with their talent, obviously one can't expect a Sauber driven by the greatest of his era to win so the car has to be quick but not always the quickest- but it the drivers perfection that I am in awe of, how they enter the corner, curve - Jimmy made a telling point once, saying something like, it isn't how early I brake that necessarily makes the difference it is how soon i come off the brakes does, I don't know if Seb is the same,

there was a picture in MS or Autosport after the 1967 British GP, where it showed I think John Surtees, Chris Amon and Jimmy taking the same curve and the caption quoted, neat, neater and neatest that is why I have always revered the likes of Jimmy, Alain, Jackie - and I don't know if you include Seb in that or not?

Chris, I think the key lies in the fact that the really exceptional drivers always seem to have something in reserve. Of course you can't win a race in a Techno or a Sauber (well, Seb did in a Toro Rosso!), you need a competitive car but some drivers seem able to stretch their limit even a bit further when needed and not make mistakes and not damage the car or tyres. That is very impressive indeed, a rare quality that can only be seen with the best regardless the era we are talking about.

If Seb belongs to the Jimmy, Jackie & Alain type of driver I don't know. I think that is a personal choice but I do know he is very clever like the great champions from the past.

[René]

Jan 20, 2018 6:03:27 GMT @valentin1936 said:

Vincenzo Lancia was the pioneer, breaking the opposition în the first 2 laps at Gordon Benett 1905, Bordino took this style further. Than came Ascari în 1924. But I wouldn't call it ă style. When you are sure of yourself and the car is fast this is the way to do it. But leading from the front is not an easy target

I agree Valentin, leading from the front is never easy, it looks easy on television, certainly to the less knowledgeable viewer but it isn't. Yes, you have the advantage of clean air, already a factor since the first introduction of wings and very much a factor today. But it is all about your own driving abilities and judgements. Total focus and concentration. Senna was also very good at that and that also made Max's victory in Mexico so impressive. There he really showed what he is all about.

[Deleted]

Your cattle shall die;
your kindred shall die;
you yourself shall die;
but the fair fame of him
who has earned it never dies

[charleselan]

Beautiful words Lucio.

Goodness me the great man in his "man cave" which is just plain amazing.

[chrisb]

Lucio, brilliant, says so much -

love the cave!

[Deleted]

www.goodwood.com/grrc/columnists/doug-nye/2018/1/doug-nye-RIP-dan-gurney--top-class-driver-top-class-man/

www.goodwood.com/grrc/race/historic/2018/1/dan-gurney-a-racing-career-and-character-in-pictures/