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Post by Carl on Oct 20, 2017 3:47:00 GMT
Gentlemen,
One interesting fact has stayed with me about lap times at Road America. In 1967, Bruce McLaren was on pole in his series dominating McLaren M6 with a lap time of 2:12.7, about 108 mph. Twenty-one years later, Scott Pruett was on pole for the Trans-Am race with a lap time of 2:11.5, faster in a professionally race-prepared Mercury Merkur than a Group 7 sports racer in 1967.
Pruett currently drives a Lexus GT3 in the IMSA Sportscar Championship. While race cars have gotten faster over the years, Pruett has finally begun to slow somewhat at 57.
It's about time!
Cheers, Carl
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Post by René on Oct 20, 2017 7:02:40 GMT
Carl,
Road America is one of the best circuits in the world in my opinion, on parr with Spa and Suzuka.
An interesting lap time comparison and it shows how car technology has evolved. But how much has the track changed over those years? Or is it still basically the same layout?
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Post by charleselan on Oct 20, 2017 17:58:13 GMT
I second that emotion René. What an absolutely stunning race circuit Road America or Elkhart Lake is.
In the mid 1990's the Cart series was broadcast late at night in the UK, not live but the following day, and i used to watch it avidly as it was better than F1 at that time. Watching the CART race from that venue was remarkable, I can only dream of what the Can-Am or Formula A cars must have been like when they raced there.
Pruett is some driver Carl; don't you just love it when some "old" guy still drives fast!
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Post by Carl on Oct 20, 2017 21:47:28 GMT
Hello Rene and Charles,
The course has had no significant alterations and remains essentially the same. This is why the comparison is valid. It's a fantastic road course with a great variety of corners; the kink leading onto the Kettle Bottoms back stretch is scary fast! Road America should be considered for Formula One, but because of European television the focus for another American GP is on east coast venues. But Wisconsin is only one hour behind New York and the more probable reason is that Elkhart Lake is simply too remote for the luxury circus of F1.
I was there for the CART race in 1995, won by Jacques Villeneuve the same year he won at Indianapolis. With three noteworthy straights, the average lap speed for Indy Cars was above 130 mph. While at a walking pace, I ran into David Hobbs who was escorting friends on Saturday and shared a laugh about his occasional broadcast partner. Hobbs has lived for many years in Milwaukee, also in Wisconsin.
And yes, Scott Pruett is pretty amazing for someone approaching 60!
Best regards, Carl
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Post by chrisb on Oct 22, 2017 9:01:43 GMT
I loved the Indycar/ Cart series until the dreaded split, and as Charles says at times it was far superior to my beloved F1 and one of the highlights was of course Road America, and yes, Carl, what a perfect place for a F1 race,
It is another circuit I would love to visit, along with Long Beach, Daytona and many others, and will now search out on you-tub if any Indycar races are posted on there,
one of my more fortunate moments was actually being at Indy in 95 - which for those who didn't get the opportunity the sheer speed of an Indycar around that circuit at that time was comparable to my first visit to the Isle of Man, they were so so quick - it really did take one's breath away, one interesting aside I was there compliments of an oil company and was with a bunch of Aussies, who at the end of the race starting putting their watches etc in their pockets, making sure everything on their person was secure, my friend and I were watching in worry as the Aussies explained they expected a punch-up leaving the circuit, ah, ok, penny and pound, here we go, nothing could have been further from what happened, I have heard various figures but I was told there were over 600,000 people at this race, how true that was I don't know, but I have never met such a more polite, considerate audience in my life, I had more trouble leaving Brands Hatch with 20 people! the Aussies [secretly i do think they were a bit disappointed] were astonished just how nice everyone, and I mean everyone, including the police were and that is my abiding memory, what a wonderful moment in my life,
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Post by René on Oct 22, 2017 10:14:42 GMT
I loved the Indycar/ Cart series until the dreaded split, and as Charles says at times it was far superior to my beloved F1 and one of the highlights was of course Road America, and yes, Carl, what a perfect place for a F1 race. Couldn't agree more Chris. The series were broadcasted live by Eurosport during the 90's and I don't think I missed a race! I was as much into Indycar/CART as I was into F1. And as you say, one of the highlights of the season was always, without exception, the race at Elkhart Lake-Road America. What a magnificant track. But also the cars were just georgeous and a generation of drivers of whom many would have done really well in F1, I have no doubt. Wonderful memories and glad to have witnessed it, but nothing lasts forever. And as for your visit to Indianapolis, you may feel envious of my computer/web design skills but I am way more envious of your Indy 95 visit!  |
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Post by charleselan on Oct 23, 2017 14:46:03 GMT
As it is a pretty inclement day here in Northern France I have been doing some paperwork in the office and some pleasurable research into motor sporting interests. While checking out some Can Am material my attention was drawn to an image of Jim Hall in his Chaparral 2G at Bridgehampton in 1968 and the circuit looks spectacular with a wonderful oceanic backdrop.
So moving onto YouTube to see if any good footage was available I came across this superb promotional footage from AMC who had just entered the TranAm series with the Javelin. It is stunning :-
I hope you guys enjoy it as much as I have and still am.
John Charles
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Post by Jamie on Oct 23, 2017 20:53:53 GMT
I'll have a look at that later, I do enjoy Trans-Am - I presume Mark Donohue features quite prominently?
I really enjoy the late 80's period when Audi entered Trans-Am with the 90 Quattro, Group 44 cars - I love watching Stuck in those beasts.
Whilst searching YT a while back I came across this Trans-Am programme which you may enjoy -
Regards
Jamie
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Post by René on Oct 23, 2017 21:50:47 GMT
I have watched that Trans-Am footage with the Javelin and its fantastic. So great we have Youtube now and be able to see this! Love the atmosphere of the film.
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Post by Carl on Oct 23, 2017 22:33:42 GMT
John Charles and Jamie,
The two films are excellent summations of an enterprising new team and a fender-bending series. Well done.
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Post by charleselan on Oct 23, 2017 22:37:52 GMT
Wasn't it good to see such American icons as Dan Gurney; George Follmer; Peter Revson and Mark Donohue. I don't think that I had ever heard the voice of Revvie or George before.
Do you agree that the film had a period patina about it, which made it all the more powerful?
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Post by Carl on Oct 23, 2017 22:58:11 GMT
Hello John Charles,
It was excellent and did indeed have an authentic 1968 appearance. That was the only year that Penske's team was in a class by itself. The promotion for Javelin was very well done to project a no-nonsense image for a company that had never before raced.
I noticed immediately George Follmer's profile as he sat alone in the grandstand (a nice creative touch) at the beginning and then walked along Turn 6 at Riverside. There was some creative editing (the spin at 8:32 during the Watkins Glen narrative was really Turn 6 at Riverside), but the filmmakers succeeded admirably in portraying American Motors as well-organized and serious about winning, a seriousness reflected in the teams choice of George Follmer and Peter Revson as drivers.
I always enjoy the number countdown at the beginning, part of that period authenticity!
Kind regards, Carl
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Post by charleselan on Oct 24, 2017 14:16:27 GMT
Carl,
That is some seriously good information and background, many thanks indeed.
How correct you are in saying that AMC made a good choice with its drivers, two class acts and so very versatile. I really liked Peter Revson who was smooth and quick in anything he drove. He and Denny were a superb partnership at McLaren both in F1 and Can Am.
We have spoken before about George Follmer on the Motorsport site. He was an extremely good driver who came late to the big time, and it was such a shame that his one and only F1 chance came at the age of 39 and in a very new team. Do you know if he attends historic meetings in America these days as I have not heard of him for many a year?
Wasn't it interesting to see that the Trans Am cars had such large and thin steering wheels, also very long gear shifts, the complete opposite to what was happening in Europe at the time where short stubby gear levers and small thick rimmed wheels were becoming common. It was very much NASCAR period in that respect. Also I liked the fact that the two team cars featured reverse colour schemes.
This period for me was the most exciting time in motor sport history, so many great race series across the globe and such wonderful vehicles, how could anyone not be impressed. It is fantastic, as René points out, that so much material is available on YouTube now and of course the internet as a whole with amazing photo reference, especially if one is a model kit builder or just an interested researcher.
John Charles
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Post by Carl on Oct 24, 2017 19:54:39 GMT
John Charles, Your observations about steering wheels and gear levers are wonderfully perceptive. I'd never thought about the possible influence on Trans-Am sedans from the bigger stock cars, but I think you're exactly right. Primitive but effective and no-one had the advantage of a Lotus Elan style short-throw gearchange. Follmer and Revson were both at that time among the best American drivers. Despite his family's wealth and because of their disapproval, Peter Revson made his own way in racing and a good drive was his just reward. I had no idea how active Follmer is these days, so I consulted Wikipedia: "After his retirement, he came back to racing for the 1986 24 Hours of Le Mans, obtaining a prestigious third place with a Porsche 956. Though long-retired from professional motorsports competition, Follmer still competes in vintage races, often driving the very same cars in which he competed during his heyday." He was, as you wrote, a great driver with unrealized potential because of a late start and limited finances until the brilliantly perceptive Roger Penske brought him in as teammate to Mark Donohue in the United States Road Racing Championship and Can-Am. Their Lola T-70s may be the most beautiful sports racers ever to grace a starting grid, drawing at times more stares than the scantily dressed race queen. -Carl Attachment Deleted |
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Post by charleselan on Oct 24, 2017 22:43:21 GMT
By my calculations carl that would have made George Follmer around 51 when he drove the Porsche 956 at Le Mans in 1985; I am slipping as I should have remembered that one. Really good to hear he is still around and driving the historic, be good to have someone interview him in a magazine sometime soon as there are not so many of that vintage around now.
The Penske Lola T70 was a beauty but I think for me the McLaren M6B just shades that one, that was a work of art, or modellers nightmare!
As an aside, when I was publishing my little quarterly magazine I did a feature on the works McLaren M6A's of Bruce & Denny and thanks to some helpful US contacts we were helped by a superb photographer called Bob Tronolone who sent us some beautiful monochrome images of the cars. I still have the 7 x 5's somewhere as i did not get around to sending them back, although I doubt if he was worried about that, a good guy.
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