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Post by mikael on Jul 22, 2024 15:23:56 GMT
I find Peter Windsor's opinion on the GP very interesting indeed.
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Post by robmarsh on Jul 22, 2024 16:12:59 GMT
Mikael, I was about to recommend that people look at it. Thought it was very interesting and made a lot of sense.
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Post by René on Jul 22, 2024 17:36:00 GMT
Excellent posts gents.
The McLaren strategy and Max's onboards are clearly dividing opinions. I like Peter Windsor's analysis and for most I agree with him. Not on the Verstappen behavior though. I read the transcript of all what was being said between Max and Lambiase and Max was simply being a rude idiot. Not what you would expect from the World Champion. Of course he has all the right to be angry or not pleased but not like that on air. I mean, it's the team that gave him all his wins. When things don't go his way, he is a copy of his dad. That's why I don't like him. He's an exceptionally good driver but he's also a di**.
As for the McLaren saga, it's a difficult one. It certainly felt uneasy but, assuming that they agreed before the race that whoever is in the lead at half distance is the one who wins, provided there is no mechanical failure of course, the team decision made sense. The only reason Lando got back in the lead was the weird strategy to pit him first over Oscar.
I had to think of Imola 1982. Not exactly the same situation of course, but here was also an agreement that the one who was in the lead at a certain stage of the race would be the winner. Gilles was his honorable self, as always respecting agreements and expecting Didier to do the same. But Didier didn't. He did what Peter Windsor said Lando should have done. Pironi smelled the opportunity to clinch his first Ferrari win, at Imola of all places! So he thought 'F*** it, I go for it'. I know at the time, I actually could understand that, and I still do.
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Post by Carl on Jul 22, 2024 20:36:16 GMT
I think the McLaren pit wall really messed up. Sure Piastri got off the line first but Lando was hampered by MV being on his left and then not giving up the position straight away. Every race this season Lando has been faster than Oscar in the last quarter of the race and he was again yesterday. Oscar's off was a bigger mistake than Lando made in his slightly tardy get off the line yet Lando had to give up his place. If I was Oscar I wouldn't feel so chuffed that I deserved the win. If it had been another team that pitted first and got the undercut then they wouldn't have moved over to let Oscar win. He may have the potential to be a great driver but he needs to earn his silver spurs not have them gifted to him. In any case none of this would have happened if the engineers were not allowed to talk to the drivers all the time. Jackie Stewart won his first race at Monza in 1965 because Graham Hill made a slight mistake at the parabolica I think. There were no team orders to give the place back and JYS didn't. He deserved the win because he made the fewer mistakes. Max is reverting to type...leopards and spots spring to mind. Isn't it amazing that when drivers win with the best car by miles it is them not the car. When they lose because of mistakes then it is the car not them. In the latter case they also throw all their toys out the cot and become quite horrible, entitled brats. So sad. On the Race site that idiot Ray is being his normal nauseating self of shouting at everyone who doesn't agree with him and being insulting at the same time. He calls teacher, teacher (Mark) when people don't support his somewhat outlandish theories. What a dick he is...so glad he isn't on this forum. Rob, Your analyis is excellent. What are the latest outlandish theories being spouted by Ray? Does he still believe Mercedes is in league with the devil?
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Post by Carl on Jul 22, 2024 22:43:49 GMT
A close approximation of McLaren's repetitive radio transmission to Lando Norris:
Max Verstappen's next day message to Red Bull:
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Post by robmarsh on Jul 23, 2024 16:34:03 GMT
I think the McLaren pit wall really messed up. Sure Piastri got off the line first but Lando was hampered by MV being on his left and then not giving up the position straight away. Every race this season Lando has been faster than Oscar in the last quarter of the race and he was again yesterday. Oscar's off was a bigger mistake than Lando made in his slightly tardy get off the line yet Lando had to give up his place. If I was Oscar I wouldn't feel so chuffed that I deserved the win. If it had been another team that pitted first and got the undercut then they wouldn't have moved over to let Oscar win. He may have the potential to be a great driver but he needs to earn his silver spurs not have them gifted to him. In any case none of this would have happened if the engineers were not allowed to talk to the drivers all the time. Jackie Stewart won his first race at Monza in 1965 because Graham Hill made a slight mistake at the parabolica I think. There were no team orders to give the place back and JYS didn't. He deserved the win because he made the fewer mistakes. Max is reverting to type...leopards and spots spring to mind. Isn't it amazing that when drivers win with the best car by miles it is them not the car. When they lose because of mistakes then it is the car not them. In the latter case they also throw all their toys out the cot and become quite horrible, entitled brats. So sad. On the Race site that idiot Ray is being his normal nauseating self of shouting at everyone who doesn't agree with him and being insulting at the same time. He calls teacher, teacher (Mark) when people don't support his somewhat outlandish theories. What a dick he is...so glad he isn't on this forum. Rob, Your analyis is excellent. What are the latest outlandish theories being spouted by Ray? Does he still believe Mercedes is in league with the devil?
Ray believes he is right and everyone who doesn't agree with him is wrong and ignorant to boot. His latest mission is to up Pioastri to deity level. In his normal little boy act he then shouts sir sir(Mark) they don't believe me, please help. Instead of arguing he just tries to belittle anybody and if they say that to him he calls them a fanboy. He is just a typical wee wee troll. |
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Post by Carl on Jul 23, 2024 18:58:29 GMT
Rob, Your analyis is excellent. What are the latest outlandish theories being spouted by Ray? Does he still believe Mercedes is in league with the devil?
Ray believes he is right and everyone who doesn't agree with him is wrong and ignorant to boot. His latest mission is to up Pioastri to deity level. In his normal little boy act he then shouts sir sir(Mark) they don't believe me, please help. Instead of arguing he just tries to belittle anybody and if they say that to him he calls them a fanboy. He is just a typical wee wee troll. Ray was ridiculous in courting allies, presumably to take his side when called upon. After several attempts, he succeeded in meeting Mark Hughes at Îsle Notre-Dame one year and managed only to alienate. As you wrote, we are glad not to have him anywhere near our round table. |
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Post by mikael on Jul 23, 2024 20:00:01 GMT
On the IndyCar thread, Carl said:
I believe that's a very good decision. Personally, I think listening to the radio conversations is annoying - we are "fed" with information we'd better not know anything about.
Also, I think it exposes the drivers in an unfair way. Clearly, a top-GP driver is completely egocentric when the helmet is on and the visor is down; as stated also by Peter Windsor in his podcast, it is simply necessary for his success that he behaves in this way. But I'm sure that they all have a "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde" personality, in the sense that they - most of them, at least - are the nicest persons when the helmet is off and the pulse and blood pressure are down. Without knowing these drivers personally (needless to say ...), I believe this has been exemplified by Michael Schumacher and Sebastian Vettel.
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Post by Carl on Jul 23, 2024 20:09:41 GMT
On the IndyCar thread, Carl said:
I believe that's a very good decision. Personally, I think listening to the radio conversations is annoying - we are "fed" with information we'd better not know anything about.
Also, I think it exposes the drivers in an unfair way. Clearly, a top-GP driver is completely egocentric when the helmet is on and the visor is down; as stated also by Peter Windsor in his podcast, it is simply necessary for his success that he behaves in this way. But I'm sure that they all have a "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde" personality", in the sense that - most of them, at least - are the nicest persons when the helmet is off and the pulse and blood pressure are down. Without knowing these drivers personally (needless to say ...), I believe this has been exemplified by Michael Schumacher and Sebastian Vettel.
An afterthought: I wonder if F1's overboard allowance of radio transmissions comes from the Netflix "Drive to Survive" emphasis on soap opera dramatics. Both are irrelevant to motorsport. |
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Post by René on Jul 24, 2024 17:12:47 GMT
On the IndyCar thread, Carl said:
I believe that's a very good decision. Personally, I think listening to the radio conversations is annoying - we are "fed" with information we'd better not know anything about.
Also, I think it exposes the drivers in an unfair way. Clearly, a top-GP driver is completely egocentric when the helmet is on and the visor is down; as stated also by Peter Windsor in his podcast, it is simply necessary for his success that he behaves in this way. But I'm sure that they all have a "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde" personality, in the sense that they - most of them, at least - are the nicest persons when the helmet is off and the pulse and blood pressure are down. Without knowing these drivers personally (needless to say ...), I believe this has been exemplified by Michael Schumacher and Sebastian Vettel. I agree with most of this, but you don't have to throw your team under the bus. Both Schumacher and Vettel could be real bastards at times, but they never publicly dismissed their team. I thought that was really weak and unnecessary. In addition to Peter Windsor's analyses, I always look forward to those of Michael Schmidt, the German doyen among journalists. He also found Verstappen's behavior unnecessary and rude. As a champion you must also be able to accept that sometimes things might not go as well, to quote Schmidt. |
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