Heroes and Villains

[charleselan]

Dec 20, 2017 21:42:45 GMT Carl said:

John Charles,

I remember the beautiful Genie sports racer but had forgotten Dan Blocker was this involved. In the first photo, he appears to want to join his driver, who seems properly dubious.

The United States Road Racing Championship was the forerunner of Can-Am and John Cannon was indeed very impressive both in the USRRC and Formula 5000.  At a higher level of competition, he won the very wet Laguna Seca Can-Am in 1968 driving an antique McLaren-Elva MkIIB fitted with the only set of Firestone rain tyres.

One thing I do remember is that Dan Blocker looked better and more natural wearing bib overalls than Carroll Shelby.  Maybe he couldn't fit into a race car, but he wore overalls as though born to the shoulder strap buckle.

                                                           Cheers, Carl

Carl,

That was indeed a memorable drive, must be one of the greatest "under dog" efforts of all time. John Cannon a mighty fine driver and very versatile.

Cheers



JC

[charleselan]

Jamie,

I had never heard of the vehicle until you mentioned it, but does have more than a passing resemblance to the Genie Mk10, especially in a similar colour.

[Jamie]

Dec 22, 2017 14:00:13 GMT charleselan said:

Jamie,

I had never heard of the vehicle until you mentioned it, but does have more than a passing resemblance to the Genie Mk10, especially in a similar colour.

It really does doesn’t it.......the J15 is a cracking car designed by Jeremy Phillips who has designed and built many sweet little sports cars; Sylva’s are always excellent track cars.

[Deleted]

A

[Deleted]

I put this here. Hero or villain? Don’t know really.

Been reading some of the questions put to John Barnard on the MS website.

One guy – who’s that??  – made a malicious query about his attitude towards joining Ferrari, like “I’ll take the job, but I won’t move there among primitives not even if Her Majesty asks” - then expects to succeed.

A couple – one of the two always the usual – ask about “diffuser stakes”. I mean, do they need aero consulting? That costs money, don’t ya know??

Another one – always the same idiot…  - asks about the cocoa bottle, no, actually the bottle of coke. Ah, right.
He's thirsty.

Another one, a Portuguese guy, an “historian” (they are all historians these days), asks

the political atmosphere surrounding the early stages of the 639/640 development, and particularly how the fight between different factions striving for power after Enzo Ferrari's death affected the Reparto Corse 

Whoa, hold on a minute, Fred! Some pretence there. Blood on the streets of Maranello. The Borgias back in town. A lot of unchecked assumptions (Fiat was in charge, full stop), put forward to someone who explicitly called himself out by sitting in Surrey.

Another ask about “the reasons that made you decide to join Ferrari after winning so many titles for McLaren”. Er… “I loved the challenge to work for Ferrari, I was really looking forward to work for them so much I’ll rather stay in Surrey than enjoying the sun”. As the Pink Floyd (immortals) once sung, “Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash”.

Some good questions too. Of course.

One asks about falling out with Dennis and how he compares to Enzo Ferrari.

Another asks about the engineering curriculum, or lack of it, these days for engineers to get to F1. Indeed, it seems they are all specialists with PhDs, but little practical experience when they get there and lack of the overall picture. Once was the other way round – first the apprenticeship then, eventually, the PhDs, i.e. the F1 wins.

Anyways. Even if I put forward some of the questions, I never seem to end up listening to the podcasts at the end.

[chrisb]

I haven't read it yet Lucio, but I have despaired of the innane stupdity of some of these people who ask really silly questions or make rash statements - it is another reason why I tend to avoid the forum now, although when I do look I do notice a lack of people i recognise

[Carl]

Jun 20, 2018 4:52:47 GMT @lucio said:

I put this here. Hero or villain? Don’t know really.

Been reading some of the questions put to John Barnard on the MS website.

One guy – who’s that??  – made a malicious query about his attitude towards joining Ferrari, like “I’ll take the job, but I won’t move there among primitives not even if Her Majesty asks” - then expects to succeed.

One asks about falling out with Dennis and how he compares to Enzo Ferrari.

Another asks about the engineering curriculum, or lack of it, these days for engineers to get to F1. Indeed, it seems they are all specialists with PhDs, but little practical experience when they get there and lack of the overall picture. Once was the other way round – first the apprenticeship then, eventually, the PhDs, i.e. the F1 wins.

Anyways. Even if I put forward some of the questions, I never seem to end up listening to the podcasts at the end.

Lucio,

          You have a very sharp keyboard! 

[Deleted]

Spot on, Carl. It's the keyboard's fault! 

[Deleted]

There are two kind of questions that irks me a bit.


One, is the guy always asking about “peaky aero setup” to every engineer – Symmonds, Murray etc – because he is on a quest to prove Senna had the fatal accident because he lost downforce on the bump at the Tamburello. He’s been asking that sort of question on other forums too, in one technical forum I replied to him few years back (at the time I still hadn’t realized his true motives, I thought he wanted to study aerodynamics applied to race cars) giving him some bibliographic references, which he readily dismissed.


The other are those that see Ferrari management dynamics – exactly the same as in every other latitude, see for example Mclaren now – only as a conspiracy or a bloody “fight” among whose parties is never disclosed (because they haven’t the faintest). Before there was the old man, he had his own advisers, but obviously he wasn’t dumb, he took his own decisions in the final analysis. After him, it was Fiat, in particular Gianni Agnelli. They didn’t always get it right for quite a while as we know. There was obviously a change or adjustment in culture for most of the people they sent to Maranello, but in the end, without the founder around anymore, it was (is) still a results’ business, highly competitive. Top level people, highly paid, pay the price or get rewarded in relation to results, as with any other company, particularly in F1. It’s the Ferrari’s alleged aura that has people seeing what effectively doesn’t exist.

[chrisb]

totally agree Lucio, i would add to your comments by saying that those contributors  to MS who repeatedly make a statement without fact nor knowledge, gets repeatedly shot down by Mark or someone similar but won't listen and doggedly pursue their truths- which of course is way off the actual truth

another one who makes a sweeping statement such as all fans like crashes, no we bloody don't you moronic twit, i detest accidents and want to see racing! drives me nuts

[Jamie]

Jun 20, 2018 4:52:47 GMT @lucio said:

I put this here. Hero or villain? Don’t know really.

Been reading some of the questions put to John Barnard on the MS website.

One guy – who’s that??  – made a malicious query about his attitude towards joining Ferrari, like “I’ll take the job, but I won’t move there among primitives not even if Her Majesty asks” - then expects to succeed.

A couple – one of the two always the usual – ask about “diffuser stakes”. I mean, do they need aero consulting? That costs money, don’t ya know??

Another one – always the same idiot…  - asks about the cocoa bottle, no, actually the bottle of coke. Ah, right.
He's thirsty.

Another one, a Portuguese guy, an “historian” (they are all historians these days), asks

the political atmosphere surrounding the early stages of the 639/640 development, and particularly how the fight between different factions striving for power after Enzo Ferrari's death affected the Reparto Corse 

Whoa, hold on a minute, Fred! Some pretence there. Blood on the streets of Maranello. The Borgias back in town. A lot of unchecked assumptions (Fiat was in charge, full stop), put forward to someone who explicitly called himself out by sitting in Surrey.

Another ask about “the reasons that made you decide to join Ferrari after winning so many titles for McLaren”. Er… “I loved the challenge to work for Ferrari, I was really looking forward to work for them so much I’ll rather stay in Surrey than enjoying the sun”. As the Pink Floyd (immortals) once sung, “Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash”.

Some good questions too. Of course.

One asks about falling out with Dennis and how he compares to Enzo Ferrari.

Another asks about the engineering curriculum, or lack of it, these days for engineers to get to F1. Indeed, it seems they are all specialists with PhDs, but little practical experience when they get there and lack of the overall picture. Once was the other way round – first the apprenticeship then, eventually, the PhDs, i.e. the F1 wins.

Anyways. Even if I put forward some of the questions, I never seem to end up listening to the podcasts at the end.

Brilliant Lucio, I saw your comment there and had a little chuckle 😆

A bit of a diversive character Mr Barnard, but you have to admire a man who knows his own mind and is not afraid to speak it (though his blunt manner sometimes grates). JB has often called a spade a bloody shovel so I’ve just brought his book as I feel it may be rather entertaining....

Great engineer of course 👍

[Deleted]

I agree, Jamie.

I was sort of trying to prevent the usual excuse, I am sure he can appreciate that sitting one thousand miles away can hardly be productive in a fast moving business like F1. They must have been pretty desperate to allow such a deal.

I have just discovered this morning, via an article on The Guardian, that there is a book about him (or from him, somehow), The Perfect Car, put it in my Amazon wish list and will get it as soon as I am back. I am much more interested in John Barnard than Newey, have to say.

I would have another question for him, but since I have already made three, I kept for myself. In his second stint with Ferrari, he claimed, I seem to remember that it was even on the Autosprint cover, that he was aiming to introduce a single arm front suspension, instead of the usual double wishbone. I never fully understood how that could have worked and I am very curious to know. The fact it never appeared may give a clue why...

[Jamie]

I’m looking forward to the book I must say, it was delivered in the week after I had it on pre-order for the last month or so.
Interesting about the single arm suspension, how would it have controlled camber change etc etc, perhaps he’ll speak of it in the book 👍

[Deleted]

I have seen the anticipation on the MS website and was quite disappointed.

Beside reading like a summary report of a season, they are not going to give De Cesaris any benefit of doubt, not after so many years, not after he can't answer anymore. So typical, I may add.

I wonder if he will brave enough to say what he thinks about Rosberg, his antipathy towards Keke so well documented - or is he motorsport royalty and is more convenient to leave him alone?

As an engineer, Barnard does interest me, but he never came across a likeable person, the opposite rather. It doesn't seem the book is going to change that.

[Jamie]

A quick flick through the index reveals that Andrea and Keke get quite a few mentions so I’ll let you know when I’ve read it through.

Just started to read this one....the book purports to be warts and all and is a biography so we’ll see.