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Post by René on Apr 14, 2023 18:20:47 GMT
 This weekend in Portugal the second round of the World Endurance Championship! After the sensational race in Sebring, it looks like we’re in for another Toyota vs Ferrari battle. Ferrari scored their first pole position in Sebring but eventually couldn’t keep up with the Toyotas in the race. Toyota has started strong in Portugal with the fastest times in FP1 and FP2 but the Ferraris are on their heels and very close in FP2, exactly like at Sebring. The expectation is it will be a lot closer in the race and... never underestimate Porsche of course!  |
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Post by René on Apr 14, 2023 21:56:35 GMT
An onboard lap of Portimão in the Peugeot 9X8!  |
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Post by René on Apr 15, 2023 12:25:02 GMT
Super close in FP3! Only 0.189 between the Toyota and the Ferrari! Forza! Peugeot also looking fast in p4.   |
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Post by mikael on Apr 15, 2023 13:00:04 GMT
This ("Le Mans Hypercars") might be the new premier category of motor sport - at least, it seems to be the most exciting one, at present, in so many ways. It seems that they have got so many things right that F1 have got "wrong"; like: a lot of freedom in the choice of engine and powertrain (and a choice between hybrid technology or not), limitation on the down-force(!), and quite small and nimble cars - even with just as much, or even more, electronics as/than the F1 cars.
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Post by René on Apr 15, 2023 17:52:29 GMT
This ("Le Mans Hypercars") might be the new premier category of motor sport - at least, it seems to be the most exciting one, at present, in so many ways. It seems that they have got so many things right that F1 have got "wrong"; like: a lot of freedom in the choice of engine and powertrain (and a choice between hybrid technology or not), limitation on the down-force(!), and quite small and nimble cars - even with just as much, or even more, electronics as/than the F1 cars.
I agree, you can basically do anything you want with the engine and the aero, as long as you stay within certain performance windows. They should have done that with F1. Pole Position for the Toyota #8 of Brandon Hartley and the #7 Toyota is second. The Ferraris are p3 and 4 and according to Hartley look much faster on race pace this time. It's going to be good tomorrow! Forza Ferrari!  |
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Post by mikael on Apr 16, 2023 8:41:27 GMT
I agree, you can basically do anything you want with the engine and the aero, as long as you stay within certain performance windows. They should have done that with F1.
Yes, the rules/regulations are really brilliant.
As to the aerodynamics, the cars are "... required to have a limited downforce to drag ratio of 4:1." (*) So this means that there's a tradeoff: less drag means higher top speed; but at the same time it means reduced (legal) downforce!
Yes, for sure, such a rule ought to be introduced into F1! Recently, it finally dawned to me that the only reason the F1 cars have grown so unreasonably large (long, in particular) is the desire (or greed!) for more and more downforce. There's no other reason; for sure, they could pack the electronics into a more compact chassis; and for sure, shorter cars could also pass the crash tests.
(*) Source:
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Post by René on Apr 16, 2023 10:04:48 GMT
I agree, you can basically do anything you want with the engine and the aero, as long as you stay within certain performance windows. They should have done that with F1. Yes, the rules/regulations are really brilliant.
As to the aerodynamics, the cars are "... required to have a limited downforce to drag ratio of 4:1." (*) So this means that there's a tradeoff: less drag means higher top speed; but at the same time it means reduced (legal) downforce!
Yes, for sure, such a rule ought to be introduced into F1! Recently, it finally dawned to me that the only reason the F1 cars have grown so unreasonably large (long, in particular) is the desire (or greed!) for more and more downforce. There's no other reason; for sure, they could pack the electronics into a more compact chassis; and for sure, shorter cars could also pass the crash tests.
(*) Source: Yes and the way you create the downforce is also free. You may use ground effect or have a flat bottom with huge wings. Whatever you think works best as long as you stay within the given requirements. Now we can only hope that the Hypercars do not suffer the same fate as Group C if this class were to become too popular compared to F1...  |
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Post by mikael on Apr 16, 2023 12:16:23 GMT
Ah! so now I finally understand how this great variety of ideas and concepts are realized!
Yes, such a pity that F1 - more and more, and now, with the new '22 rules, almost completely - has come to look like a one-make series, even thought it of course isn't. And such a pity they won't get out of that blind alley called "Downforce" - because I'm sure they won't. Probably not ever.
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Post by Carl on Apr 16, 2023 17:09:10 GMT
I agree, you can basically do anything you want with the engine and the aero, as long as you stay within certain performance windows. They should have done that with F1.
Yes, the rules/regulations are really brilliant.
As to the aerodynamics, the cars are "... required to have a limited downforce to drag ratio of 4:1." (*) So this means that there's a tradeoff: less drag means higher top speed; but at the same time it means reduced (legal) downforce!
Yes, for sure, such a rule ought to be introduced into F1! Recently, it finally dawned to me that the only reason the F1 cars have grown so unreasonably large (long, in particular) is the desire (or greed!) for more and more downforce. There's no other reason; for sure, they could pack the electronics into a more compact chassis; and for sure, shorter cars could also pass the crash tests.
(*) Source:
The obsession for downforce has led Formula One to embrace ridiculous lengths. The essential stupidity of Adrian Newey, despite his genius, has led the sport to its own stupidity.
How can a genius be stupid? When the effect of his/her conceptions harm the sport.
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Post by René on Apr 16, 2023 18:29:01 GMT
Ah! so now I finally understand how this great variety of ideas and concepts are realized!
Yes, such a pity that F1 - more and more, and now, with the new '22 rules, almost completely - has come to look like a one-make series, even thought it of course isn't. And such a pity they won't get out of that blind alley called "Downforce" - because I'm sure they won't. Probably not ever. That’s why the Peugeot looks the way it does, it relies very much on ground effect for downforce and a very unique rear bodywork. Very cool.  |
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Post by René on Apr 16, 2023 18:31:52 GMT
Yes, the rules/regulations are really brilliant.
As to the aerodynamics, the cars are "... required to have a limited downforce to drag ratio of 4:1." (*) So this means that there's a tradeoff: less drag means higher top speed; but at the same time it means reduced (legal) downforce!
Yes, for sure, such a rule ought to be introduced into F1! Recently, it finally dawned to me that the only reason the F1 cars have grown so unreasonably large (long, in particular) is the desire (or greed!) for more and more downforce. There's no other reason; for sure, they could pack the electronics into a more compact chassis; and for sure, shorter cars could also pass the crash tests.
(*) Source: The obsession for downforce has led Formula One to embrace ridiculous lengths. The essential stupidity of Adrian Newey, despite his genius, has led the sport to its own stupidity.
How can a genius be stupid? When the effect of his/her conceptions harm the sport.
Is it really Newey responsible for these cars or is it the FIA? I think Newey is just the most clever interpreter… which doesn’t mean he’s not stupid…  |
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Post by René on Apr 16, 2023 18:40:51 GMT
A second win for Toyota and a first second for Ferrari! Toyota is still the class of the field but the others are closing in. The Japanese manufacturer has a couple of years experience with this format and are simply the best running operation. But they can also have issues and the #7 car was out of contention very early in the race. Ferrari could have been 2nd and 3rd but the #51 car developed brake problems. But hey, 3rd in Sebring, 2nd in Portimão so who knows, a win in Spa? The Porsche 963 finished 3rd and there was great racing throughout the field. Great race!  |
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Post by Carl on Apr 17, 2023 1:04:00 GMT
The obsession for downforce has led Formula One to embrace ridiculous lengths. The essential stupidity of Adrian Newey, despite his genius, has led the sport to its own stupidity.
How can a genius be stupid? When the effect of his/her conceptions harm the sport.
Is it really Newey responsible for these cars or is it the FIA? I think Newey is just the most clever interpreter… which doesn’t mean he’s not stupid… Better to blame the designer and not the mass of bureaucrats who gave him wings and winglets to elevate the sport right into a rock precipice. There's no doubt the FIA is massively uncoordinated and at times even devoid of sense, but Newey's leverage of its disarray is shameful because his cleverness has degraded the sport. When Red Bull wins, much credit goes to the chief designer, but the other side of that coin is accountability when mistakes are made. An idiot savant is a genius who spends more time being an idiot, a strange duality Newey defines.  Blaming the messenger is a time-tested, albeit knee-jerk, response to intolerable events, making both messenger and bad news vanish...until the next day and message A wise king will blame only the first two messengers |
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Post by mikael on Apr 17, 2023 6:51:18 GMT
The obsession for downforce has led Formula One to embrace ridiculous lengths. The essential stupidity of Adrian Newey, despite his genius, has led the sport to its own stupidity.
How can a genius be stupid? When the effect of his/her conceptions harm the sport.
Yes, I do agree that the team principals and designers have a moral obligation to not kill the sport just for their own sake - for the sake of winning, and nothing else.
That is to say, I think they have a moral obligation to provide good and honest feedback to FIA, such that the state of F1 doesn't go completely astray.
I came to think of the following passage in a mini-portrait of Colin Chapman, in a book called "Formula 1 - 50 Golden Years" from 1998:
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Post by René on Apr 17, 2023 7:58:50 GMT
The obsession for downforce has led Formula One to embrace ridiculous lengths. The essential stupidity of Adrian Newey, despite his genius, has led the sport to its own stupidity.
How can a genius be stupid? When the effect of his/her conceptions harm the sport.
Yes, I do agree that the team principals and designers have a moral obligation to not kill the sport just for their own sake - for the sake of winning, and nothing else.
That is to say, I think they have a moral obligation to provide good and honest feedback to FIA, such that the state of F1 doesn't go completely astray.
I came to think of the following passage in a mini-portrait of Colin Chapman, in a book called "Formula 1 - 50 Golden Years" from 1998:
Yes true but it is also known that Lewis has been trying to raise the problem of ever bigger and heavier cars for years, without any results. I am also kinda disappointed in Domenicali who seems to drift further away from the heart of the sport and is only focused on commercial success.  |
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