Russian Grand Prix - Sochi

[robmarsh]

Hi Mikael

I fully understand where you are coming from re Hamilton. There is no denying he is a great driver and definitely one of the best, if not the best of his generation. I was a great supporter of him when he first started and it was by all measures a very impressive debut season. I even brought a 1/43 Minichamps model to celebrate his first win. However, there were certain aspects of the way he went about his business that first year at McLaren and the way Mercedes dominated the sport from 2014 to 2019 that have tempered that enthusiasm since then. It has got to the stage where I feel quite down when Mercedes win yet again. Funny enough I got a similar feeling during 2004 when Ferrari kept winning. I guess I just don't like total, ruthless domination by anyone. I also think a lot of hype has been generated around SLH's results that don't take into account the total dominance of his car and that I feel create a false picture as to his greatness so I was just trying to give some perspective.

I think Michael Schumacher was a great driver but the fact that he never allowed an equal teammate into the team or that team orders gave him victories when he was beaten, detracts from his overall standing in my eyes.

Nigel Mansell had a great season in 1992 but never once did he acknowledge the superiority of the Williams car over the other until the next season when he was ousted by Prost and then stated that".. even a monkey could win in that car."

In contrast to Mansell I refer to the graciousness of Jochen Rindt who acknowledged the superiority of the Lotus 72 after winning at Hockenheim in 1970 and Jackie Stewart who admitted in 1973 after the German Grand Prix that Cevert was faster than him.  These are the standards, admittedly old fashioned, that I base my views on.

However, as you say we can discuss our views on this forum in an open and civilised way without getting personal and aggressive and that to me is more important than anything else as sport is supposed to be for enjoyment and fun and not war.

CheersRob

[chrisb]

what a wonderful debate chaps, makes me proud to be a member of this wonderful forum,

I don't Lewis that well, I was an admirer of his on the way up but he fell out of favour when he had really competitive team-mates like Jenson and Nico, and like Michael some of his on-track decisions are not pleasant, but my word he is quick, which Michael was, the dominance of their respective cars may mask some of their genius but it also shows us some of their defects, whereas I met Michael in 1995 at Silverstone Goodyear tyre testing, and saw a completely different side to him which was a really nice, down to earth bloke when he is away from his competitors and the media, I also met Damon at the same event and again what a lovely bloke, very charismatic and engaging, whereas several other drivers were less than approachable shall we say, although I did get Jean Alesi's autograph for someone else and he was ok.

Going back to Lewis, I am interested in your comments Mikael at Suzuki and how he took a different and probably quicker line, that impresses me a great deal, and influences my thoughts, Jimmy took a different approach to his competitors quoting that it wasn't so much how early or late you braked it was more about when you stopped braking, in other words he thought about it and worked it out, naturally , Senna was the same as was Jackie, great natural talents, Senna driving round in a lower gear in the wet and showing surprise others didn't work out that he got better traction as a result,

Showing graciousness to others is vital, it is a team game after all, but also acknowledging that you have the best car by miles is also a must in my humble opinion, people rave about the 1967 Italian GP and Jimmy's incredible drive, Jimmy didn't, he was quite non plussed by it, saying well I have the best car and was quite nonchalant about it, obviously annoyed that his victory was denied him, but not that impressed by his drive, whereas the rest of us are still gob smacked by his ability, I would think Ascari would have been the same in 52/53, so I don't know if Lewis has acknowledged that until this year his car and team were so much more superior or not, 

[René]

Excellent posts guys and as befits the administrator, I agree with all of you!

[mikael]

Sept 28, 2021 8:23:26 GMT chrisb said:

Going back to Lewis, I am interested in your comments Mikael at Suzuki and how he took a different and probably quicker line, that impresses me a great deal, and influences my thoughts, Jimmy took a different approach to his competitors quoting that it wasn't so much how early or late you braked it was more about when you stopped braking, in other words he thought about it and worked it out, naturally , Senna was the same as was Jackie, great natural talents, Senna driving round in a lower gear in the wet and showing surprise others didn't work out that he got better traction as a result,

The event that impressed me the most, and stands most clear in my mind, was in 2014(*), with rain, that got stronger as the race progressed. At the start of the race, the rain was not that heavy, and everybody took a "wet weather line" through the turn where we stood. But as the rain took on in strength, "everywhere was equally bad", and Hamilton switched back to the normal "dry weather line" in that corner. However, everyone else continued using the "wet weather line", but Hamilton's choice clearly looked more natural, and faster. Standing there at the track side, it seemed puzzling that nobody else could see what Hamilton could.

(*) This was the year of the Bianchi accident. We didn't see it and, of course, we didn't know how bad it was until we read about it later.

Hamilton during the Japanese GP 2014.

For me, the small details, that one is able to enjoy,  are really what makes it worthwhile to travel to a Grand Prix. They justify all the trouble and the cost ...

An even stronger impression and memory is one that goes more than 30 years further back, to the 1982 Swedish 250cc motocross Grand Prix, in 1982. Here Donnie Hansen (USA) had a completely different approach to a challenging turn where we stood (exactly for that reason). It was a turn that followed immediately after a jump, and everybody landed on the rear when and then turned once the front wheel was down as well. Hansen, however, landed on the front wheel deep into the turn. It looked "wild" but certainly, such an approach was much faster - if you dared to do it ... Hansen won both heats/motos by a "country mile" ...  

Donnie Hansen on the podium in Sweden in 1982.

Donnie Hansen in Vimmerby, Sweden (1982), apparently approaching an instant/example of the untraditional approach that impressed us to much, landing with the front wheel down first.

[robmarsh]

Yeah Michael that was very interesting about Hamilton being more alert or more capable than the other drivers to take a different line. The small details are fascinating. I remember the 1977 South African GP, I was seated at Crowthorne at the end of the main straight, and took particular interest in the way Niki Lauda was driving the Ferrari. He took the same line in the braking area, always about two inches off the white line and he turned in at exactly the same point. This went on for lap after lap unless he was overtaking some one. I also noticed in 1983 at the same venue but different corner where I could look straight down into the cockpit. The top drivers, Prost, Piquet, Tambay, Lauda hardly moved their arms when they came out of the corner, in fact they reminded me of Scalextrix drivers. Others, like De Cesaris were still sawing away like mad at the wheel whilst accelerating away from the corner.