|
|
Post by charleselan on Sept 1, 2021 11:47:26 GMT
I actually viewed the Peter Windsor/Nigel Mansell YouTube clip minutes before posted here by René. An interesting take on things by Nigel and in many ways he was correct about the level of technology and ability to alter the cars for such conditions. Also the fact that they should have carried on circulating behind the pace car from the beginning, or his alternate idea that they should circulate under a "Delta Time" and thus be faster than behind the pace car which has some merit. However it has to be said that the chances of a catastrophic accident happening within that level of spray was high and that was surely the biggest problem faced by the officials. At Le Mans they have no racing zones when there are problems on the track but for the rest of the lap they are racing, it sounds strange but for endurance racing it works, so could it work for F1? One thing I did pick up on was Nigel's comment about respect for corners and the fact that there is nothing on the current circuits that allow for the great talent to make a difference from the so so talent. In other words it is what we have often mentioned here, that being the lack of a viable punishment being available for exceeding track limits or a challenging corner not having the necessary deterrent to shear bravado. the only "corner" that offers that is the final chicane in Canada "Champions Corner"! Anyway here is a reminder of other times and the greatest winning in far worse conditions on the old Spa circuit, he even has time to look at the photographer such was his ability.  |
|
|
|
Post by René on Sept 1, 2021 17:40:38 GMT
Yes I also had the feeling Nigel said a few things that made sense. Of course there is no comparing his times to modern times but they could at least have tried harder. There was a Porsche race in practically the same conditions and if they had run for more laps behind the safetycar or indeed maybe under VSC, maybe they could have disposed of more water and have a race. Yes safety must come first but this is Formula 1, not knitting.
But as Kimi would say; "it is what it is".  |
|
|
|
Post by chrisb on Sept 2, 2021 16:00:35 GMT
I watched Nigel's piece, on Peter's show, some interesting points, I don't understand why they didn't continue behind the safety car, or maybe the VSC, the last thing any of us want is a serious accident, and yet they are an elite number of drivers who can cope with such adverse conditions and as you say Rene, they could have tried a bit harder,
and then I see John's picture of the maestro, I don't know if anyone has seen the very brief you tube clip of Jimmy winning in 63 but the force and amount of rain at the end was a joke, and yet on they went, winning my a mere 5 minutes, says so much
|
|
|
|
Post by René on Sept 2, 2021 17:46:55 GMT
According to Alonso and Vettel it’s due to the wider tires and very high downforce levels of the current cars that created the poor visibility. I guess it was too dangerous with these cars but disappointing it was.
|
|
|
|
Post by mikael on Sept 2, 2021 19:06:10 GMT
Great photos, René; thank you for sharing them - but yes, a very sad outcome of that event.
Modern Formula One has moved into a blind alley in so (too) many ways: the cars cannot drive in close proximity to each other, they cannot drive on even slightly bumpy tracks; and now we have learned that they also cannot drive in the rain.
Hopefully it will be realized that that some significant changes have to be made, before the great, traditional circuits are being ruined, one after another (ref. headlines at present, like, "F1 has seen the last of old Spa" - this is just sad beyond bounds ...).
Ref.: |
|
|
|
Post by mikael on Sept 3, 2021 16:50:22 GMT
According to Alonso and Vettel it’s due to the wider tires and very high downforce levels of the current cars that created the poor visibility. I guess it was too dangerous with these cars but disappointing it was.
By the "very high downforce levels", Alonso must mean that it is the so-called "dirty air" that creates additional "spray". This seems plausible. So one more good reason for limiting (getting rid of) all those aerodynamic devices :-) (And again, hopefully this gets better in 2022.)
Otherwise (i.e., besides from additional spray-generation), in the rain, the more downforce the better, for sure.
As to the width of the tyres, it's understandable, also, that the wider the tyre, the more spray it generates. But the tyres of the mid-70's were just as wide ...
|
|
|
|
Post by René on Sept 3, 2021 20:16:40 GMT
As to the width of the tyres, it's understandable, also, that the wider the tyre, the more spray it generates. But the tyres of the mid-70's were just as wide ...
True but I take it that modern rain tires are way more efficient than the tires used in the 1970s and will ‘move’ a lot more water and create more spray. |
|
|
|
Post by mikael on Oct 17, 2021 19:45:47 GMT
As long as they keep the corner in its original shape ...
|
|
|
|
Post by René on Oct 17, 2021 21:23:27 GMT
As long as they keep the corner in its original shape ... Ah I didn’t know that, that’s a shame. It’s been there as long as I can remember. Quite an iconic building. In 2018 I made this photo.  |
|
|
|
Post by chrisb on Dec 22, 2021 11:13:23 GMT
Rene, have just seen the headlines and see that no compensation will be offered for the cancellation of the race after 3 laps, other than a F1TV pass or something, sorry that is just plainly wrong, in cricket you get so much compensation for so much or little - and by comparison F1 is a very wealthy sport, I see someone is saying the FIA or Liberty are the ones who need to compensate spectators,
On a personal level I think that is a dreadful move and am sorry that they have decided this course of inaction. On an F1 fan note I just think of 63,65 and 66 and wonder what the likes of Jochen or John, let alone Jim or Jackie would have thought of not racing that awful day when they did at the fearsome old circuit
|
|
|
|
Post by René on Dec 23, 2021 11:12:08 GMT
Rene, have just seen the headlines and see that no compensation will be offered for the cancellation of the race after 3 laps, other than a F1TV pass or something, sorry that is just plainly wrong, in cricket you get so much compensation for so much or little - and by comparison F1 is a very wealthy sport, I see someone is saying the FIA or Liberty are the ones who need to compensate spectators, On a personal level I think that is a dreadful move and am sorry that they have decided this course of inaction. On an F1 fan note I just think of 63,65 and 66 and wonder what the likes of Jochen or John, let alone Jim or Jackie would have thought of not racing that awful day when they did at the fearsome old circuit Yes, that's a disappointment. You know, it's a shame of the money but I will live. But there are also people who saved a year or longer to go to that race. The organisers or the FIA should have done more.
Yes there is the F1TV pass and fans are being given the opportunity to enter a prize draw to win seats at next year’s race. But a total of only 170 seats will be given away...and there were 70.000 fans.
|
|
