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Post by René on Jun 20, 2020 23:25:53 GMT
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Post by chrisb on Jun 21, 2020 5:45:03 GMT
i never associated the Chaparral with Can-Am but with Brands Hatch in 67
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Post by chrisb on Jun 21, 2020 5:48:20 GMT
 Le Mans many years ago |
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Post by charleselan on Jun 21, 2020 11:04:39 GMT
John Charles, Thanks for the great photo of a great car and driver exiting the final corner at Laguna Seca. Proving ignorance can be bliss, I normally see the Cox oval as emblematic of Chaparral Racing without making a connection to slot cars! Below is a website featuring some at steep prices. My lasting impression is that Chaparral clearly dominated Group 7 sports racing for several years, winning the United States Road Racing Championship with the 2C in 1965 and often fastest the following year in Can-Am, but the 2E, with less displacement, was down on power. After a few great years, with resources also devoted to endurance racing, Chaparral was hard-pressed to perfect its innovative designs. The 2H and 2J are best explained as acts of desperation. John Surtees deserved far better than the 2H. Gordon Murray should have known better eight years after the dust hit the fan. For me, it's a tie for most beautiful Chaparral between the 2E and 2F.
Jim Hall in 2C at Riverside 1965
Mike Spence in 2F at Nurburgring 1967
www.electricdreams.com/Shop/vintage-slot-cars-60s-70s-c-4/cox-c-4_179/Carl, Firstly thanks you for the link to the "Electric Dreams" site and the Cox cars for sale at quite an exclusive price. These are the 1/24th scale versions that Cox produced a scale that as much bigger in the USA than in the UK. I have posted a photo of the 1.32nd scale box set of the Ford GT40 I lusted after as a young teenager, I really should get one if i can find it at a reasonable price somewhere. For me the Chaparral 2B was my favourite, from the early version driven by Roger Penske that i first saw on the cover of "Sportscar Graphic" to the Sebring 12 Hour winning version of later years. The 2C that you picture was not that successful and was the first to have an aluminium monocoque, all of the earlier versions had monocoques constructed in glass fibre. The 2C was also a very elegant car and featured the moveable rear spoiler which was a forerunner to the 2E. The 2E is probably my next favourite, and it was such an innovative design with ideas that influenced race car design even to this day. The high wing on struts was way ahead of the game, as was the use of airflow through the nose section which had been gradually included in the earlier 2B and 2C cars. Also something that often gets overlooked was the mounting of the radiators on the side of the car. All of these ideas were utilised by Colin Chapman in his cars; I would say influenced him and not plagiarised. The Lotus 49B's had the scoops on the nose cone that were influenced by the Chaparral and of course the high strut mounted wings. Moving on then to the side radiators that were iconic on the Lotus 72 and still employed on race cars to this day. Interestingly the 2H was a bit of a disaster but had some interesting ideas that again were used by Colin Chapman in one of his designs. I believe that the 2H had a De Dion rear axle which was also tried by Chapman with a F3 car, both were unsuccessful and never considered again. The Chaparral 2J however was very quick but prone to mechanical ailments, and featured some pretty outstanding drivers in its short career. Gordon Murray got the concept right with the Brabham BT46; in fact too right  . |
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Post by Carl on Jun 21, 2020 16:14:24 GMT
i never associated the Chaparral with Can-Am but with Brands Hatch in 67 Endurance racing was an outgrowth of a highly successful history in North America. Unfortunately, Chaparral had overextended its resources by 1967 and its success in Europe was a last hurrah. In Can-Am, where it once excelled, it struggled to be competitive as innovation stalled with the 2G and Chaparrals were soon gone from road racing grids. Jim Hall continued the team and had great success in F5000 with Lolas driven by Brian Redman, and the Chaparral 2K (designed by John Barnard) at Indianapolis, but the days of great innovation in Midland, Texas, were over. |
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Post by charleselan on Jun 22, 2020 12:00:29 GMT
Last night I sat down to watch some TV and tuned into my current favourite YouTube which appears to offer more than any UK channel at present. In the recommended section up popped a real treat in the form of the 1967 Times Grand Prix at Riverside. I thought I had seen this before but was mistaken, however it is from the great series by Dave Despain which must have been aired some years ago.
The 1967 race was a particularly good round of the Can Am series, and the finale to that year. Overall the picture quality is OK, better once the coverage gets really underway and it does feature some of the best views of Riverside that i have seen on film. It had a superb entry with Bruce & Denny in my favourite McLaren's the M6A; Jim Hall in the Chaparral 2G; Parnelli Jones in the very unique 5 litre version of the "four cam" Indy Ford engine fitted to a Lola T70; reigning champ Big John Surtees in the works Lola T70; super fast Dan Gurney in his beautiful dark blue Lola T70 with the Ford V8 engine and Mario Andretti in the Paul Newman Honker Ford resplendent in metallic purple.
It turned into a classic fight between Bruce; Jim Hall and Parnelli early on after Dan's engine gave up. The Indy Ford engine in Jones' Lola had amazing top end speed but lacked torque and eventually he dropped back and it became a big battle between Jim & Bruce, probably one of the best performances by the Chaparral 2G and unexpected by many.
Great to hear the voices of so many drivers of the day as well, and some of the camera angles were stunning. I do remember seeing some photos in the Uk weekly motor sport journals following the race, but the reports were quite limited in content if I remember.
Enjoy the film highlights below.
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Post by Carl on Jun 22, 2020 16:01:23 GMT
John Charles, An excellent film of a great race worth seeing again! The prolonged back and forth between Bruce McLaren and Jim Hall is fierce and fantastic racing and Denny Hulme's car control as he sped almost the full distance of pit lane to protest a penalty in reverse is amazing.
Parnelli Jones was always at the front in every category and shows the form and speed that drew the attention of Formula One, while Dan Gurney continued to pay for his loyalty to Ford over the years, what seemed a higher cost than his retainer was worth. 
Edited for the hell of it
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Post by Carl on Jun 23, 2020 3:56:55 GMT
The program host Dave Despain was a stalwart on cable motorsports channel Speedvision and I believe "Glory Days" was his creation. Another program he hosted was "Thursday Night Thunder", filmed on location at celebrated small dirt ovals.
In the summer of 1995 at the 1/4 mile dirt track on the coast in Ventura, California, Despain and I were both present as a young Tony Stewart won the USAC Midget race and made history by claiming all three major national championships in the same year, something never done before. Stewart was an amazing driver before he became feisty and fat.
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Post by charleselan on Jun 23, 2020 14:53:11 GMT
The Dave Despain "Glory Days" series were excellent programs and it very obvious that Dave himself is a real enthusiast and not your normal plug in front man. I have been viewing these on YouTube for some years now, when were they originally broadcast Carl?
Last evening I viewed a few more, which I had watched before on my computer screen but not on a large TV monitor. The 1966 Stardust race at Las Vegas which was the series finale, I have seen a few times but seeing it on the bigger screen was memorable. John Surtees was very strong and won the race and inaugural Can Am crown in his gorgeous red and white (arrowed) Lola T70. I always remember that as I looked at the photos published in the Uk weekly journals for hours on end.
The Chaparrals both had issues with their high mounted wings, scary watching them flap up and down before finally pitting. An interesting desert circuit, a bit like Riverside in places but no where near as good. Also interesting to hear the drivers interviewed post race; Bruce McLaren happy but commented that second is of little value really as winning is what it is all about. Strange isn't it that Bruce always seemed far more fired up and competitive in Can Am than F1.
Also on my viewing list last night was the 1962 Players GP from Mosport in a film produced by Imperial Tobacco. It was really the forerunner to Can Am and had some interesting driver car combinations with eventual winner master Gregory in a pale green Lotus 19 Climax, which I take to have been a UDT Laystall entry although not mentioned in the film.
Dan Gurney was always quick and should have won in the Arciero Bros red Lotus 19 but as ever the Big man's luck was elsewhere. Jim Hall was running one of his first Chaparral's the front engined monster and that was going well for a while.
Just wonder films and memories that make modern motor sport look pale in comparison.
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Post by Carl on Jun 23, 2020 16:54:45 GMT
John Charles, Glory Days began in the mid-80s and lasted several years. Dave Despain recently retired after four decades, as you wrote, a real enthusiast of motor racing and one of the very best, along with Bob Varsha, in America. I remember doing the same as you, staring for hours at photographs when almost no races were televised. Years would pass before I learned exactly where they'd been taken as details fully emerged. I have a clear memory of listening to the Indy 500 on a transistor radio and twice paying to see a closed-circuit broadcast in theaters along with other die-hard enthusiasts willing to tolerate film on too large a screen for its fidelity. altdriver.com/racing/dave-despain-retirement/ |
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Post by charleselan on Jun 23, 2020 18:19:46 GMT
John Charles, Glory Days began in the mid-80s and lasted several years. Dave Despain recently retired after four decades, as you wrote, a real enthusiast of motor racing and one of the very best, along with Bob Varsha, in America. I remember doing the same as you, staring for hours at photographs when almost no races were televised. Years would pass before I learned exactly where they'd been taken as details fully emerged. I have a clear memory of listening to the Indy 500 on a transistor radio and twice paying to see a closed-circuit broadcast in theaters along with other die-hard enthusiasts willing to tolerate film on too large a screen for its fidelity. altdriver.com/racing/dave-despain-retirement/Carl, Many thanks indeed for the details and that excellent link to Dave Despain's career and life, he really does sound like a top guy. In many ways it is sad that he has retired, but that eventuality comes to us all in the end. I am certain that he will have many other things to occupy his time and great to see that he was also initially, and still is, a motorcycle man. It is amazing how many of us started our interest or passion with bikes, and they still have a great place in our hearts and minds to this very day. The idea of looking at those pictures in far off times is just so right. I used to have the magazines etc laid out across the family armchairs and stand looking at them all, just imagining being at the race meeting. As you say however not even really knowing the full layout or terrain of a given circuit as information was so scant in those days. The one overriding beauty of DSJ's writings was the fact that he could take one to those places with his excellent prose. In his "Continental Notes" he would often describe his journeys across Europe and that could be intoxicating, and also make one want to do the same in the future. I always loved his annual reports and "Notes" on the Targa Florio as they were often the most descriptive with all the talk of "bandit territory" etc. JC |
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Post by Carl on Jun 23, 2020 23:59:08 GMT
John Charles, Glory Days began in the mid-80s and lasted several years. Dave Despain recently retired after four decades, as you wrote, a real enthusiast of motor racing and one of the very best, along with Bob Varsha, in America. I remember doing the same as you, staring for hours at photographs when almost no races were televised. Years would pass before I learned exactly where they'd been taken as details fully emerged. I have a clear memory of listening to the Indy 500 on a transistor radio and twice paying to see a closed-circuit broadcast in theaters along with other die-hard enthusiasts willing to tolerate film on too large a screen for its fidelity. altdriver.com/racing/dave-despain-retirement/Carl, Many thanks indeed for the details and that excellent link to Dave Despain's career and life, he really does sound like a top guy. In many ways it is sad that he has retired, but that eventuality comes to us all in the end. I am certain that he will have many other things to occupy his time and great to see that he was also initially, and still is, a motorcycle man. It is amazing how many of us started our interest or passion with bikes, and they still have a great place in our hearts and minds to this very day. The idea of looking at those pictures in far off times is just so right. I used to have the magazines etc laid out across the family armchairs and stand looking at them all, just imagining being at the race meeting. As you say however not even really knowing the full layout or terrain of a given circuit as information was so scant in those days. The one overriding beauty of DSJ's writings was the fact that he could take one to those places with his excellent prose. In his "Continental Notes" he would often describe his journeys across Europe and that could be intoxicating, and also make one want to do the same in the future. I always loved his annual reports and "Notes" on the Targa Florio as they were often the most descriptive with all the talk of "bandit territory" etc. JC I still have several of the many copies of MotorSport I once bought at newstands, and always enjoyed reading "Continental Notes" because the little man had a great romantic sense of adventure which he conveyed, as you write, in an intoxicating style that inspired his readers to travel the same roads, ideally in an X-KE  I would read everything cover to cover, even the advertisements, exotic to a young American. |
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Post by charleselan on Jun 24, 2020 18:23:41 GMT
Carl, Many thanks indeed for the details and that excellent link to Dave Despain's career and life, he really does sound like a top guy. In many ways it is sad that he has retired, but that eventuality comes to us all in the end. I am certain that he will have many other things to occupy his time and great to see that he was also initially, and still is, a motorcycle man. It is amazing how many of us started our interest or passion with bikes, and they still have a great place in our hearts and minds to this very day. The idea of looking at those pictures in far off times is just so right. I used to have the magazines etc laid out across the family armchairs and stand looking at them all, just imagining being at the race meeting. As you say however not even really knowing the full layout or terrain of a given circuit as information was so scant in those days. The one overriding beauty of DSJ's writings was the fact that he could take one to those places with his excellent prose. In his "Continental Notes" he would often describe his journeys across Europe and that could be intoxicating, and also make one want to do the same in the future. I always loved his annual reports and "Notes" on the Targa Florio as they were often the most descriptive with all the talk of "bandit territory" etc. JC I still have several of the many copies of MotorSport I once bought at newstands, and always enjoyed reading "Continental Notes" because the little man had a great romantic sense of adventure which he conveyed, as you write, in an intoxicating style that inspired his readers to travel the same roads, ideally in an X-KE I would read everything cover to cover, even the advertisements, exotic to a young American. Carl, Originally DSJ traversed Europe in a Porsche 356 and then purchased his beloved "E" Type Jaguar. It must have been an amazing experience for him driving around all those European countries in that beautiful car, surely one of the most glorious production cars of all time. Europe would have been a much different place to what it is now, each country having its own borders and customs checks etc. Also the complete picture being so much different to what is now the case, few motorways or autoroutes. I wonder if Jenks would have been a Brexiteer like Nye etc; I somehow doubt it as he came across as a bit of a europhile to me back then, even if eccentrically English in so many other ways. When I travelled the length of France from Calais to Monte Carlo in 2000, at times I had this feeling of being like DSJ back in those days. I avoided the Autoroutes as much as possible, stopping overnight at certain points, and especially making a big thing of visiting Rheims. Also driving through the Alps down into Nice and thence on to Monaco all brought thoughts of his trips, and strangely in the Alpine roads feelings of the film "The Italian Job" the iconic film featuring Michael Caine. John Charles |
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Post by Carl on Jun 25, 2020 0:40:00 GMT
I still have several of the many copies of MotorSport I once bought at newstands, and always enjoyed reading "Continental Notes" because the little man had a great romantic sense of adventure which he conveyed, as you write, in an intoxicating style that inspired his readers to travel the same roads, ideally in an X-KE I would read everything cover to cover, even the advertisements, exotic to a young American. Carl, Originally DSJ traversed Europe in a Porsche 356 and then purchased his beloved "E" Type Jaguar. It must have been an amazing experience for him driving around all those European countries in that beautiful car, surely one of the most glorious production cars of all time. Europe would have been a much different place to what it is now, each country having its own borders and customs checks etc. Also the complete picture being so much different to what is now the case, few motorways or autoroutes. I wonder if Jenks would have been a Brexiteer like Nye etc; I somehow doubt it as he came across as a bit of a europhile to me back then, even if eccentrically English in so many other ways. When I travelled the length of France from Calais to Monte Carlo in 2000, at times I had this feeling of being like DSJ back in those days. I avoided the Autoroutes as much as possible, stopping overnight at certain points, and especially making a big thing of visiting Rheims. Also driving through the Alps down into Nice and thence on to Monaco all brought thoughts of his trips, and strangely in the Alpine roads feelings of the film "The Italian Job" the iconic film featuring Michael Caine. John Charles John Charles, I remember the Porsche 356 and having mixed feelings about the Jaguar, but I soon understood its superiority at touring in the grand style. Around town, the 356 would have been more fun. I recall an earlier post about that road trip, I believe taken with a woman friend, and every envy neuron I have has activated again. What a wonderful experience to drive the same back roads you once read about, and then top it off by visiting the significant crossroads town of Cassel.
-Carl
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Post by charleselan on Jun 25, 2020 14:32:02 GMT
Carl, Originally DSJ traversed Europe in a Porsche 356 and then purchased his beloved "E" Type Jaguar. It must have been an amazing experience for him driving around all those European countries in that beautiful car, surely one of the most glorious production cars of all time. Europe would have been a much different place to what it is now, each country having its own borders and customs checks etc. Also the complete picture being so much different to what is now the case, few motorways or autoroutes. I wonder if Jenks would have been a Brexiteer like Nye etc; I somehow doubt it as he came across as a bit of a europhile to me back then, even if eccentrically English in so many other ways. When I travelled the length of France from Calais to Monte Carlo in 2000, at times I had this feeling of being like DSJ back in those days. I avoided the Autoroutes as much as possible, stopping overnight at certain points, and especially making a big thing of visiting Rheims. Also driving through the Alps down into Nice and thence on to Monaco all brought thoughts of his trips, and strangely in the Alpine roads feelings of the film "The Italian Job" the iconic film featuring Michael Caine. John Charles John Charles, I remember the Porsche 356 and having mixed feelings about the Jaguar, but I soon understood its superiority at touring in the grand style. Around town, the 356 would have been more fun. I recall an earlier post about that road trip, I believe taken with a woman friend, and every envy neuron I have has activated again. What a wonderful experience to drive the same back roads you once read about, and then top it off by visiting the significant crossroads town of Cassel.
-Carl
Carl, That is absolutely correct it was that very trip in the year of 2000. I often worry that like some older guys one tends to ramble on at tedium about events past, hopefully in this instance it wasn't a multiple of mentions of same trip. Visiting and spending time at Reims was very special, the feel of the place and its nostalgia was almost overwhelming and i maintain that everyone who is able should pay a visit. Never classified as a classic circuit like the Nurburgring or Spa, it never the less was quite unique and offered up serious challenges not only for its excess in speed. Driving down through the alps was another experience again and it later came to my attention that some of the roads we used were in fact stages on the Monte Carlo Rally. The weather was incredibly mixed as well with one day warm and sunny for April, and then the next torrential downpours. On some of the Alpine roads we encountered large land slides which gained ones attention arriving upon one around a blind rock faced bend. No Sat' Nav's either in 2000, all planned and done using the excellent Michelin Road Map bound book. Also as you mention the visit to Cassel on the return journey was another special occasion that rounded the trip off to perfection. John Charles |
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I would read everything cover to cover, even the advertisements, exotic to a young American.