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Post by Carl on Oct 22, 2017 3:40:46 GMT
On the same theme of 1950's GP films there is another superb one on of the 1956 French GP from Reims featuring the Lancia Ferrari's and an early stunning performance of the Vanwall driven by Harry Schell. Thank you for the recommendation, John Charles A great period film highlighted by wonderful engine sounds. The early mid-engine Bugatti 251 was brilliantly conceived and it's a shame the budget wasn't there for development. Many times prophets are without honor in their own time... -Carl |
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Post by chrisb on Oct 22, 2017 5:50:27 GMT
thank you Mikael, just reminds how scary the old Spa was,
Charles, I was at Donington in 1979 for the Gunnar Nilsson memorial day, which was doubly poignant as we were also mourning Ronnie as well, on the other side Fangio was there in the pre-war Merc, opposite locking, tyres squealing and smoking, as I fulfilled an ambition to see the great man in action, that day also brought James in his last ever time in an F1 car, the FW07 being driven in anger down the Cramer curves, and then George Harrison driving a 1959/60 F1 Cooper
Stirling always insisted that to him Fangio was the GOAT and yet Jenks would always argue that Ascari was the better driver,
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Post by charleselan on Oct 22, 2017 17:14:29 GMT
Chris,
Of course it was the Gunnar Nilsson Memorial Meeting where the events took place, and not the opening event at the newly opened Donington Park. I actually went to that very event in the autumn of 1977 and it was a round of the F2 championship which was won by Bruno Giacomelli in the prototype March 772P, that was one quick little car; which won again if memory serves me correctly the following year at an early Silverstone meeting with Patrick Neve driving.
I can't think why I was unable to attend the Gunnar Nilsson meeting, must have been something very important to prevent me being there.
Carl,
You are so spot on about the Bugatti 251, so advanced in its concept but sadly lacking in funding, such was many things in Europe in the 1950's, pretty austere times, but in many ways none the worse if I can remember back to my childhood. These old films are just so compelling, and I wish that amazing film I mentioned earlier about the Pau GP of 1955 was still on YouTube.
What a wonderful phrase, "Many times prophets are without honour (sorry English UK spelling) in their own time...."
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Post by Carl on Oct 22, 2017 18:09:22 GMT
Chris and John Charles,
One of the attractions at the first Formula One Long Beach Grand Prix was a demonstration run of several laps by many of the greatest pilotes ancien, including Stirling Moss, Jack Brabham, Rene Dreyfus, Dan Gurney, Innes Ireland and in the natural spotlight, Juan Manuel Fangio, who I watched from the top of my grandstand, looking down as he got into his car and adjusted his helmet and goggles, awesome to see in and of itself! But Fangio wanted to race, not simply drive around! And most fans also wanted more than a hurried parade. I still don't know what insurance adjuster advised against.
It still was cool to see them in their most famous cars. Cool...as in lukewarm.
Here's Fangio and Brabham at speed two years later:
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Post by charleselan on Oct 23, 2017 11:16:14 GMT
Carl & Chris,
Your talk of the demos by "pilots ancient" reminds me of some experiences at various Donington Park meetings during the 1980's. I have a soft spot for Donington as it was there I first gained an official Press Pass, and from there a whole new world opened up for me. A few years later i was working at the Formula Two meeting in 1983 at Donington where there was a demonstration of Historic Cars during the lunch break. Mike Thackwell who was racing alongside Jonathan Palmer in the Ralt Honda works team that year was down to drive Jack Brabham's 1959 F1 Cooper Climax.
Thackwell ever the rebel went out without crash helmet and was certainly not hanging around, I can still to this day see him with wavy locks blown back in the airstream powering that little car around as if he was born to that era. A couple of hours later he was sat in his Ralt alongside JP at the front of the grid for the F2 race, where just before the start his race engineer crouched alongside the car then stood up, patted Mike on the helmet and said " see you in an hour and a quarter sunshine". Such are memories.
John Charles
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Post by chrisb on Oct 23, 2017 20:59:27 GMT
Carl and JohnCharles,
thank you chaps,
Lovely stories that are just wonderful to read, Mike Thackwell was always a bit of a star for me and despite not garnering the success his skills demanded I have so much respect that guy
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Post by charleselan on Oct 23, 2017 22:33:20 GMT
Chris,
Thackwell was one of the greatest untapped talents this sport has ever seen; unbelievable natural talent, and still faster than most others even after that terrible accident testing the original F2 Ralt Honda. Many thought he would never drive again after that, but thanks to the patronage of former World Speedway Champion Barry Briggs they got him into a private March F2 car and his story began again, he was in poor shape when he drove that March for the first time at Silverstone on a cold wet day. That day also alerted us all to one Stefan Bellof, and another rising talent Frank Jelinski, both in Maurer BMW's.
Mike however was this own man and despised modern motor racing, he would have much preferred to have driven in the 1950/60's. have you heard the tale of Thackwell at the Silverstone driving school, told by the hugely entertaining James Weaver. Where they were instructing at the school in Formula Fords, Mike wasn't too engaged with things but had to do a demonstration. So dressed in shorts and open toed sandals he jumps in the FF car and proceeds to go faster and do more things with the car than any of the other instructors could believe.
You must have read the great piece that Rob Widdows did on him a few years back, he is apparently surfing on the south coast of the Uk these days and enjoying a pipe, ever the rebel.
John Charles
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Post by mikael on Oct 25, 2017 15:36:26 GMT
On the same theme of 1950's GP films there is another superb one on of the 1956 French GP from Reims featuring the Lancia Ferrari's and an early stunning performance of the Vanwall driven by Harry Schell. As an aside my main Christmas present in 1959 was a book called "BP Book of Motor Racing" which I treasure to this day, and as can be seen from the sellotape spine it saw much use. In it is a very period driver profile of Harry Schell. Apropos of Harry Schell: I have a copy of "The Cruel Sport. Grand Prix Racing 1959-1967" by Robert Daley (orig. published 1963; mine is the 2005 ver.). Daley was at that time a sport journalist/reporter and a novice to Grand Prix racing; so the book is not deep and knowledgeable but it is well written and, most of all, the many, large photos are stunningly good and beautiful. I find it a fascinating book. The short section he has on Harry Schell is very strong and ... unforgettable: "A driver can be coldly determined or, like Willy Mairesse, he can be nervous, impatient, ...., "or like Harry Schell, a driver can love girls, laughs, and good living. Everyone liked Harry Schell. He was a prudent man. In eleven seasons he had never had an accident - nor won a major Grand Prix. He made plenty of money finishing fourth, third, second. "With me, racing is business," he said, "I don't take chances ." And he meant it. "If a driver has this philosophy, it might possibly save him. "It did not save Harry." |
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Post by René on Oct 25, 2017 15:54:21 GMT
That is a fantastic anecdote on Harry Schell!
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Post by charleselan on Oct 25, 2017 17:54:09 GMT
A very good comment Mikael from what sounds to be a most interesting book. Amazing drivers of that period, full of character and lived life to the fullest, all be it very short for many like Harry Schell. Sadly that period and for several decades afterwards it did not matter how good or even great you were, there was no amount of talent, or luck, that could save you if something went wrong out of your own control.
Other pushed the limits too far, I won't name names but we know who those brave guys were, and paid for the mistake or over ambition.
For me Harry Schell was a name that captured my imagination as a small lad growing up in the 1950's, along with Jean Behra and of course the usual big names off the times.
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Post by charleselan on Oct 25, 2017 18:03:33 GMT
With regard to my earlier post on Mike Thackwell I mentioned the excellent feature written by the much missed scribe (not dead I hasten to add, just gone) Rob Widdows in Motor Sport. Some of you may remember the photos that accompanied the article, the one I attach sums up Mike three years ago and maybe still does.
Incidentally he has had an interesting life after motor sport, things which include being a helicopter pilot going to North Sea Oil Rigs (that is pretty challenging); an Inner London School Teacher of deprived kids to name but a few.
Attachment Deleted
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Post by chrisb on Oct 25, 2017 20:03:22 GMT
many thanks chaps, I do recollect reading a piece on Harry and if memory serves wasn't he advocating rollover bars and was killed as a result of not having one? my memory is somewhat vague, but I will always remember that smile and Tony Vandervell's vow [sorry Rene]
I saw Mike race a few times and he was very impressive, one of my favourite meetings of all time was Easter at Thruxton with the F2 cars and one year in particular when the Maurer's turned up, they looked quite dark and mysterious a bit spooky but wow were they quick
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Post by charleselan on Oct 26, 2017 11:34:23 GMT
So many great memories of the Easter Monday F2 races at Thruxton Chris. My first was a very warm (strange for the Uk in April) 1971 when Graham Hill in the Rondel Brabham BT30 pipped Ronnie after he was badly baulked by a back marker on the last lap; I will never forgive that guy  , but great drive by the old boy!!
The Maurer's were beautiful things, designed by the very talented Gustav Brunner, who went on the produce some very decent Ferrari's.
I loved Thruxton on a sunny day and saw some great BTCC rounds there when it was real touring car racing; one great memory seeing Andy Rouse in his new Rover Vitesse spank the "works" TWR cars!!
JC
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Post by Carl on Oct 28, 2017 4:31:27 GMT
John Charles, Rene has made you a junior member, which could be either a promotion or a demotion since the designation is undefined. Has Rene's competitive spirit tempted him to assess you with a grid penalty because your superlative comments rival his equally excellent ones? Will there be a battle of Titans comparable to Dijon? Ferrari and Renault want you both back safe and sound... -Carl Attachment Deleted |
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Post by chrisb on Oct 28, 2017 6:07:01 GMT
JohnCharles,
one of my most abiding memories of the spectacle that is Thruxton was - gosh will have to check the year but, a saloon car race, when it wasn't bumper-cars, with the Rover SDi's the Capri's 5 abreast on the approach to the 1st corner, I actually remember taking a step back, it was one moment that could never be repeated,
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, but great drive by the old boy!!