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Post by Carl on Sept 30, 2019 16:06:16 GMT
Just a thought: The stress and strain the top drivers are subjected to is more clear when seen under the light of how much they are paid for their services. Assuming the list referred to below is (reasonably) correct, and assuming the drivers are paid per race(*), Hamilton is paid $2.7 million (USD) per race. Vettel is paid $2.1 mill. (per race) -- which, by the way, is 13 times the amount Leclerc is paid (again, assuming the list is correct). Seen in this this light, a driver's error is, in a sense, a catastrophe! (from the viewpoint of the driver himself, at any rate). But it always seemed to me that, the bigger the pressure on Hamilton, the better he performs (at least in recent years). Reference: www.gpfans.com/en/articles/4026/formula-1-driver-salaries-2019/(*) I know this is not the case, but it put things in better perspective. Edit/addition: It is not my intention to, say, criticize Vettel. Absolutely not. I was just thinking out loud and pondering on the almost unreal salary of the top-of-the-top drivers. And since most of the drivers have an ordinary middle-class background, to get paid so generously must, again, add tremendously to the pressure to succeed any time out on the track. Good point, Mikael. An alternative explanation has also been true throughout history and that is the need to justify extreme wealth and privilege by pretending they impose extraordinary burdens.
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Post by René on Sept 30, 2019 18:58:29 GMT
I don't like that people can pit under the safety car and gain such an advantage however....the pits need to be closed under those circumstances so the race is 'neutralised' in every way.. Yes, I agree very much Jamie. The VSC was introduced as a safety measure so the marshals can do their work safely while the cars run at relatively low speed. Having the pits open during a neutralisation actually 'neutralizes' the neutralisation effect  and makes it an opportunity to overtake which is silly. |
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Post by René on Sept 30, 2019 19:01:51 GMT
Amazing how the Mercedes-Ferrari rivalry has picked up momentum. It's easy to wish for something like, "if only this had happened a bit earlier" - but of course, it's of no use to think like that. But the championship is almost a settled matter. Hamilton is now leading Leclerc with 107 points. (Bottas is in between, but that will not be an issue ...) With five races left, there are 25X5 + 1X5 = 130 points available, so to "steal" the championship, Leclerc would basically need to win all remaining five races, with Hamilton scoring less than 23 points. Not absolutely impossible, but still, ... If it happened the 2019 season would become a legend. In other words, if Hamilton wins the next round, at Suzuka, he is World Champion (unofficially, since Bottas, theoretically and formally, is in the race a bit longer). The main question is: "are you going to Suzuka, Mikael?"  |
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Post by chrisb on Oct 1, 2019 4:41:08 GMT
great posts chaps, some great points and insight, informative and non judgemental - really great reading,
just continuing your point Mikael if I may [and are you going to Suzuka? oh, and more importantly how is the rugby doing in Japan, as a semi Scot I was over the moon yesterday-anyway sorry] - if the drivers are paid so much, I wonder what the tacticians are paid? and are they on bonuses?
I ask rather facetiously because lets face it they are really integral to winning and losing and denotes a whole lot more team sport these days, something I am sure enhances some people's interests and for others less so.
I am coming away with the thought that Mercedes hasn't so much won this year, it is more of a case that Ferrari lost - given as said it looks odds on Lewis will retain his championship what will the teams learn for next year?
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Post by mikael on Oct 1, 2019 13:25:19 GMT
The main question is: "are you going to Suzuka, Mikael?"
Hi René
Yes, it's the sure thing! Tickets bought, hotel rooms reserved; everything's in place. We will again be seated at "The Esses", which provides very good value for the money.
(Since last year, even the tickets for the affordable places have been upgraded to expensively-looking pit-pass-like lanyards. Before that, those tickets were just printed slips of paper. )
Attachments:
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Post by René on Oct 1, 2019 19:23:04 GMT
The main question is: "are you going to Suzuka, Mikael?" Hi René
Yes, it's the sure thing! Tickets bought, hotel rooms reserved; everything's in place. We will again be seated at "The Esses", which provides very good value for the money.
(Since last year, even the tickets for the affordable places have been upgraded to expensively-looking pit-pass-like lanyards. Before that, those tickets were just printed slips of paper. )
Fantastic Mikael! This is really one of the Grand Prix I want to visit once in my lifetime... one day...  |
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Post by chrisb on Oct 1, 2019 19:28:09 GMT
me too Rene, would love to have been in Japan for the rugby followed by the F1 race and then the MotoGP- sheer heaven, but hey ho, another time, but Japan is certainly a country I would like to visit
have a fabulous time Mikael and am looking forward to more excellent photos
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Post by Carl on Oct 2, 2019 22:36:41 GMT
The main question is: "are you going to Suzuka, Mikael?"
Hi René
Yes, it's the sure thing! Tickets bought, hotel rooms reserved; everything's in place. We will again be seated at "The Esses", which provides very good value for the money.
(Since last year, even the tickets for the affordable places have been upgraded to expensively-looking pit-pass-like lanyards. Before that, those tickets were just printed slips of paper. )
Mikael, What section of the circuit is most popular? I've noticed at different race tracks over the years that the start/finish straight with a view of pit lane usually is most popular, although I seldom would choose it. The esses at Suzuka would be my first choice! Next would be the apex of 130 R and the Degner Curves.
We all envy you...
Cheers, Carl
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Post by mikael on Oct 3, 2019 9:43:34 GMT
Hi Carl, With reference to the map below, I believe that the "home-straight" strip between A1 and R is very popular, although it's really expensive. The B1-B2 seats are also very popular, as is the D block by the Esses. (My friend bought our tickets for the D-block already in early April; they are very soon sold out.) I just checked that tickets are still available at A2, E, and Q2, so these blocks are, apparently, not that popular. (A2 is a nice location, but the tickets are too expensive. The prices are about five times those for the D-block seats.) The complete C-block is always reserved by Honda, for their employees - and some lucky customers. (I had the privilege to sit there once (two years ago), as my wife actually won a couple of tickets (she has a small Honda "kei"-car and is thus a Honda customer).) The whole "West Area" (upper right rectangle) is actually a "general admission" area, so for about 100 USD, one has admission to this whole area and to all the dark-green stands (in the map), including the G-block by the 130R curve. The problem is, this G-block is always over-crowded. I very much like the reserved seat system in the D-block. It provides a significant stress-reduction. You can leave your seats and come back - the number on your ticket is your seat; there's no discussion. If you leave the G-block it may be very hard to re-enter.  Regarding the Degner curve, in the current layout of the circuit, there's actually not real access to this curve, how strange it may appear. As the photo below shows, the turn is surrounded by a large gravel trap. Beyond that there's a kind of service road, which is "off limits". And I believe that the service road is just at the limit of the circuit-area, such that beyond it ... there is simply a rice field! So again, this corner cannot be viewed well.  Finally, regarding 130R, I came across a movie on You-tube that shows the evolution in speed through that corner over the years. Since the mid-00's, it has, apparently, been taken "flat out" - which is simply amazing! |
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Post by charleselan on Oct 3, 2019 13:35:53 GMT
Funny thing was that when I used to go to motor sport meetings including Grand Prix it was always the best thing to go as a trackside spectator where one could change vantage points during the day. As time passed it wasn't so easy on race day at the British GP of course as the whole circuit would literally be packed out and you needed to set up a viewing place of choice very early on race morning, usually before dawn. Most spectators who opted for this would set up a camping chair and that would be respected especially if an accord was set up with people next to you.
Very rarely did I ever go in a Grandstand, let alone pay for one. For the British GP the practice days were always the best for me either at Brands Hatch or Silverstone, the race not so. However the atmosphere was always great on race day.
Even in the 1970's I could see changes happening, from my perspective thanks to commercialism and the influence of Ecclestone. The latter completely destroyed the paying spectators access to the paddock through the 1980's in his ever increasing greed and pandering to the corporate entity.
Obviously it became different for me from about 1980 onwards as I became a Press Photographer and access etc was on a different level.
I find it very interesting how things are at Suzuka are nowadays thanks to Mikael's comment above and the details he has kindly provided. To be truthful I could not cope with that now as a paying spectator as I was obviously spoilt by having the kind of access of days gone by.
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Post by Carl on Oct 3, 2019 21:50:14 GMT
When I first would attend, it was on race day only and only at Riverside Raceway, one of the great American natural terrain road courses. After a short time, I knew which seats in the Turn 6 grandstand offered the best views, not only of the double apex turn itself, but also of the high speed esses from the exit of Turn 2 and the first third of the long back straight exiting Turn 8. I would call the ticket office and they would hold these seats until receipt of my check. I still recall it was Section B and Row 24 just beneath a horizontal walkway, allowing us to stand without blocking anyone's view. What's more, there were back supports and plenty of room for legs and lunches. In the late 1960s I discovered SCCA National weekends, which feature the best amateur drivers from across the country, never crowded and almost heaven for spectators. Entire weekends became my approach. For Can-Am or Formula 5000 races, a room at the Holiday Inn meant having breakfast in the coffee shop, eavesdropping on conversations of drivers and team owners at nearby tables. A grandstand seat was best on race day, but wandering the track could still be done on the preceding days, even on the Thursday if one of the well-funded teams was doing early testing. Those were the days and lasted two decades at Riverside for me. When Chris Pook had total charge of his brilliant creation, the atmosphere in Long Beach was similar even though crowds were always large. Soon the local Chamber of Commerce assumed overall control and things changed. My last time in a grandstand there, the only back support were the knees of the people too close behind for comfort. The final time was six years ago and my friend and I went upscale to the top of the Hyatt Regency, one of about a half-dozen expensive options. The catered lunch was excellent and the views were expansive but too far removed. By shameless deception once at Riverside, I gained access to the platform atop the Champion Bridge from which you could look right down on the main straight, the sturdy platform moving up and down slightly from the disturbed air as the cars blasted by underneath. I never enjoyed special access, but the access ordinary spectators once had was very special compared to the restrictions of today. I join John Charles in having been spoiled by far better days.
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Post by mikael on Oct 4, 2019 2:59:51 GMT
Interesting stories, Carl and JC. Yes, it's interesting to see, from iconic photos taken at great races of the past, how spectators often were "allowed" to conquer billboards and the like; the officials apparently just turned a blind eye to it. If you tried things like that today, at most circuits you would probably be guided directly to the exit by an official.  |
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Post by Carl on Oct 4, 2019 4:31:58 GMT
Mikael, It still happens at Monza! By looking carefully you may see Arrivabene perched drunkenly on the Martini billboard.
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Post by charleselan on Oct 4, 2019 13:57:00 GMT
Great comments above Carl & Mikael. I should have added to my above post that back in the 1960/70/80's it was often a case of groups go supporters building viewing platforms from scaffolding on the spectator banking, particularly at Silverstone in my experience, less so at Brands Hatch. I have seen many photos of similar at Kyalami which no doubt Rob can support, and i am certain the same is true at Watkins Glen. Although more apparent at the Glen and in Canada (Mosport & St Jovite) were spectators sat on top of camper vans etc. Of course the scaffolding towers of old have long since disappeared and anyone trying to erect such a device would be escorted from the venue by multiple security goons. Not once in my experience did anyone erecting these do so with any intent of inconvenience to others, it was all about respect and illustrated the freedom that we all used to enjoy before the big money grab came into play. As Carl says great days to have been a motor sport enthusiast . |
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Post by chrisb on Oct 5, 2019 14:42:35 GMT
wasn't it just? whilst not looking back with rose tinted glasses - we were really spoiled, this is one of the few times I am pleased with my age - having been blessed with such a brilliant variety and number of motor races I saw and enthused over, some regrets that I didn't go to as many as I would have liked to have done, but wonderful,
with regards to the scaffolding , it was de rigeur at so many places, at Brands there will be a few scattered around, but then we had South Bank, and if memory serves it was around Paddock Hill and away on the GP circuit, but until Silverstone became its own fortress they were everywhere, and after Mansell's maniacs disrupted F1 there were issues, and certainly the Group C races they were great and innovative, but no one got offended and the guards didn't strut around but actually helped people, not that I have any issues with what happened to Silverstone, but go to Donington and feel welcome - go to Silverstone and that is somewhat less noticeable, which begs the question - staff at Brands could be a bit snotty but generally ok, Thruxton were ok, Oulton Park used to be pretty friendly and Knockhill was ok, but I wonder what other peoples experiences are and were at other circuits
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and makes it an opportunity to overtake which is silly. 
