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Post by chrisb on May 12, 2019 20:48:54 GMT
chaps i agree with all the above comments, i watched the briefest of highlights all 6 minutes of it and got bored, listening to commentators rave about a DRS assisted overtake says so much of how perilous F1 has become,
JC for some time F1 was nigh on a spec 'formula', in the early 60's we had Coventry Climax vs BRM and Ferrari, the 70's Cosworth vs a few others, and aside from the dread of a serious accident the racing was something special, but now we have car manufacturers dictating for their marketing purposes our Formula One, and do they care about fans? it would appear not
I do wonder what happens when Mercedes joins FE - will it withdraw from F1? will they transfer Lewis to FE?
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Post by Carl on May 13, 2019 1:36:37 GMT
LANCE STROLL! Is it just me or can we now classify Lance as definitely sh%thouse? And is Lancey actually enjoying playing in his sandpit? How can he enjoy being knocked out in Q1 in every race while watching his journeyman team mate progress easily? How is Dad liking having a team with one decent driver and one sh&thouse driver, one car effectively nullified? Does he care? Clearly not. It's a bit of a shame seeing Lance take a perfectly decent F1 seat with the likes of JEV and Ocon and even some of the other Formula E drivers like Bird and Wehrlein and Vandoorne unable to break in. Meanwhile, out he goes in Q1, every race, race after race. What a shame. 
I guess Lance is now begging his dad to buy Mercedes so he can at least go for a podium...With slight apologies to Janis Joplin: "Dad, won't you buy me a Mercedes-Benz"
I'm damn slow in Racing Point,
I must make amends
Worked naught all my lifetime,
No help from Perez
So dad, won't you buy me a Mercedes-Benz?"
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Post by chrisb on May 13, 2019 4:30:18 GMT
will this have a happy ending I wonder Mr Stroll? so, what happens to racing point if young Stroll continues as he is,
Ok, they finished last again but i note that the lap times of Team Willie are improving - or am I deluding myself?
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Post by Carl on May 13, 2019 5:11:37 GMT
Within seconds of the start, Sebastian Vettel's banzai passing attempt seriously compromised Valtteri Bottas in the first turn. Lewis Hamilton would most likely have prevailed anyhow; his race pace was unbeatable, but still, he would have had to fight for the lead at the start. David Croft was fascinated for half an hour that Vettel had flat-spotted his tyres and unresponsive when Martin Brundle pointed out Ferrari's unintended assist of Hamilton on replay. In Catalonia, Brundle once again provided all the perceptive insights in the booth while, with great excitement, the lead commentator managed to confuse Kvyat for Albon and Bottas for Hamilton. On NBCSports IndyCar broadcasts, there's the same imbalance of windbag and calm expertise. What has major networks convinced that talkative idiots attract viewers? |
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Post by mikael on May 13, 2019 8:13:31 GMT
Within seconds of the start, Sebastian Vettel's banzai passing attempt seriously compromised Valtteri Bottas in the first turn. Lewis Hamilton would most likely have prevailed anyhow; his race pace was unbeatable, but still, he would have had to fight for the lead at the start. David Croft was fascinated for half an hour that Vettel had flat-spotted his tyres and unresponsive when Martin Brundle pointed out Ferrari's unintended assist of Hamilton on replay. In Catalonia, Brundle once again provided all the perceptive insights in the booth while, with great excitement, the lead commentator managed to confuse Kvyat for Albon and Bottas for Hamilton. On NBCSports IndyCar broadcasts, there's the same imbalance of windbag and calm expertise. What has major networks convinced that talkative idiots attract viewers?
Yes, if it were possible to turn off the commentary (also on the "highlights" on the official F1 page) - that would be a most welcome option. I may be repeating myself, but the overflow of information does not add to the excitement - it's quite the opposite.
I came across a little part of the 2004 Italian GP on YouTube, where the "poster" has edited (filtered) away the commentary. How enjoyable it is to watch! (Gives a feeling of standing there, track-side ... almost ...)
Technically a commentary on/off option could be realized very easily with a stereo signal: natural sounds (cars/engines, spectators, on-track announcements, etc.) in one speaker and commentator's voice in the other. (NHK (Japans equivalent of BBC) realize bilingual news in this way: English in one speaker; Japanese in the other; then just off the one you don't like.)
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Post by mikael on May 13, 2019 8:17:56 GMT
I've not found a link to the extrusion manufacturing of the tyres, but here are some links to an interview between Craig Scarborough (techincal journalist) and Mario Isola, Pirelli's head of motorsport.
Jim, thank you very much for your comments and for those YouTube links. Very informative. M. |
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Post by mikael on May 13, 2019 13:38:18 GMT
It seems that a problem is being made of Mercedes's domination at present, see e.g.
www.grandprix.com/news/the-dilemma-of-mercedes-domination.html
They have five consecutive World championships, and they're probably on their way to a sixth one.
Ferrari took five consecutive World championships in the period '00-'04; so they (Ferrari) are (probably) on their way to (just) being narrowly beaten in this respect.
But neither of these teams come nowhere near the domination of Motorcycle Grand Prix ("MotoGP") by MV Agusta in their heyday.
In the 500cc class, they took 18 championships in the period 1956-1974, with 17 consecutive ones, in the period 1958-1974. During these years, Giacomo Agostini took seven consecutive titles, in the period 1966-1972.
During the existence of the 350cc class, they dominated that one just as much, taking the titles in 1958, 1959 to 1961, and 1968 to 1973, i.e., ten championships. (Here, Giacomo Agostini took an additioal six consecutive titles, in the years 1968-73!)
Finally, from the early/mid 50's and up to 1960, they dominated the 125cc and 250cc classes as well.
So is the present Mercedes domination a dilemma? I don't think so; not yet ... |
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Post by chrisb on May 13, 2019 19:24:52 GMT
a very good point Mikael, except I remember clearly the Ferrari domination in the early 00's and all the cries of foul play that went with it, as all the other teams were claiming that the FIA were terribly in favour of Ferrari something that I think came out later, and the huge loss of interest and shenanigans that went on with how do you measure a barge-board Ross? it wasn't until they started to get beaten that the interest was rekindled, I don't think for a minute MB are at all being favoured I just think they are doing a better job than anyone else, Jackie Stewart asked the question a couple of years ago, what are Mercedes getting out of this? I still ask that question, why are they still involved?
Honda are doing a pretty good job in modern MotoGP having won 5 out of the last 6 championships, and yet the sport is still growing at an enormous rate so yes Mikael I think F1 is in a dilemma because Honda, Renault and Ferrari aren't providing the competition Ducati, Suzuki, Yamaha are and KTM will, and Aprilla hope to in MotoGP
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Post by charleselan on May 13, 2019 20:39:46 GMT
There is a feed available of the races without commentary which i happened upon by accident at the end of last year. It was broadcast by the French TV company that has exclusive rights ( I think it was at least); and i believe offered as part of the F1 TV package, so one has to subscribe or pay for it. I didn't by the way as I would rather shovel animal excrement than give those leeches any of my money for such a pathetic product.
However just watching as if at the circuit without the inane babble of the likes of Croft; or the sterile wittering of Coulthard was absolute bliss. I have said it before and will repeat, if anyone wants to hear a commentary team as it should be, listen to James and Jack of Eurosport British Superbike coverage.
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Post by charleselan on May 13, 2019 21:05:22 GMT
It seems that a problem is being made of Mercedes's domination at present, see e.g.
www.grandprix.com/news/the-dilemma-of-mercedes-domination.html
They have five consecutive World championships, and they're probably on their way to a sixth one.
Ferrari took five consecutive World championships in the period '00-'04; so they (Ferrari) are (probably) on their way to (just) being narrowly beaten in this respect.
But neither of these teams come nowhere near the domination of Motorcycle Grand Prix ("MotoGP") by MV Agusta in their heyday.
In the 500cc class, they took 18 championships in the period 1956-1974, with 17 consecutive ones, in the period 1958-1974. During these years, Giacomo Agostini took seven consecutive titles, in the period 1966-1972.
During the existence of the 350cc class, they dominated that one just as much, taking the titles in 1958, 1959 to 1961, and 1968 to 1973, i.e., ten championships. (Here, Giacomo Agostini took an additioal six consecutive titles, in the years 1968-73!)
Finally, from the early/mid 50's and up to 1960, they dominated the 125cc and 250cc classes as well.
So is the present Mercedes domination a dilemma? I don't think so; not yet ... Some very interesting observations Mikael, but I believe that the motorcycle Grand Prix racing of the 1950's through to the 1970's in the 350/500cc classes was very different to what we are seeing in F1 today. MV Augusta did win a huge amount of those championships but the majority were against nothing more than private entrants on their single cylinder Norton and Matchless/AJS machines which were no match for the four cylinder works Italian bikes. For most of the 1950's there was great competition between MV Augusta and Gilera with their four cylinder "fire engines", along with Moto Guzzi in various forms or other. However after Gilera and Moto Guzzi finished racing MV had a clear run until Honda stepped up to the bigger classes with the amazing 256cc six cylinder machine in the 350 class and the powerful but brutal 500cc four in 1965/6. After Honda then withdrew MV were on their own once more until Yamaha entered the 500cc class with its two stroke four which Ago eventually transferred to after the tragic death of the brilliant Jarno Saarinen. To my way of thinking MB dominate in F1 now because they have the best of everything; funding; resource and personnel both out of the car and in. The proof of why Ferrari have failed to beat or seriously challenge them is down to the fact that they have not got the people in place as they did in the early 00's, and that is the painful truth. Renault may well be the biggest manufacturer in respect of commercial production but they are simply unwilling to match the spend of MB or Ferrari/Chrysler/Fiat and probably RB-Honda. Also I think that Renault lost a lot of their big personnel when they ran away from F1 for a few years, and that is a big problem for them to recover from, monetary challenges aside. RB-Honda may well eventually get there, and are showing promise this season. Honda however are at a huge disadvantage as they are years behind MB when it comes to developmental years with these power units; in fact I think they are doing darned well in reality. However in conclusion, six years of MB dominance is ruining the sport and combined with all of the other negativity around F1 right now it ain't good. |
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Post by Carl on May 13, 2019 22:12:31 GMT
Gentlemen, When we know essentially what's happening, it would be sublime to listen to the sounds without any babble. The mute button is overkill, but complete silence is better than listening to an excited David Croft or a pontificating Leigh Diffey. Both should be bound and gagged often. David Croft is clearly delighted with himself whenever he senses great drama and talks loud and fast. To me he sounds like a cow being tortured.
If you've seen the animated comedy "Family Guy", Leigh Diffey often sounds like the precocious and extremely weird Stewie character when he launches another maudlin soliloquy. Sixty years ago my father devised a mute switch so the sound could be turned off when he would yell from his den that "the idiot box" was too loud. He was a pioneer, although we children thought he was simply a grouch. Cheers, Carl |
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Post by René on May 14, 2019 11:28:16 GMT
It seems that a problem is being made of Mercedes's domination at present, see e.g.
www.grandprix.com/news/the-dilemma-of-mercedes-domination.html
They have five consecutive World championships, and they're probably on their way to a sixth one.
Ferrari took five consecutive World championships in the period '00-'04; so they (Ferrari) are (probably) on their way to (just) being narrowly beaten in this respect.
But neither of these teams come nowhere near the domination of Motorcycle Grand Prix ("MotoGP") by MV Agusta in their heyday.
In the 500cc class, they took 18 championships in the period 1956-1974, with 17 consecutive ones, in the period 1958-1974. During these years, Giacomo Agostini took seven consecutive titles, in the period 1966-1972.
During the existence of the 350cc class, they dominated that one just as much, taking the titles in 1958, 1959 to 1961, and 1968 to 1973, i.e., ten championships. (Here, Giacomo Agostini took an additioal six consecutive titles, in the years 1968-73!)
Finally, from the early/mid 50's and up to 1960, they dominated the 125cc and 250cc classes as well.
So is the present Mercedes domination a dilemma? I don't think so; not yet ... Mikael, I cannot really comment on the motorcycle part as I don’t know enough about that but regarding Ferrari’s dominance of the early 2000’s you do have a valid point. Even for me as a die-hard Ferrari fan, the Schumacher/Ferrari era became a bit of an overload at a certain stage. I think it is never good for any sport if one team dominates for too long. Of course it is not the fault of the team in question, they are just doing the best job. And Mercedes is doing an amazing job right now. Barcelona was a huge disappointment to many because it’s almost certain now that we will see another Mercedes championship. That is not only disappointing to Ferrari fans but to all race fans who want to see a real fight for the win. That hope seems gone now, certainly for the championship. I am sure Ferrari and Red Bull will win a few races but that will feel as a consolation prize. I also feel the differences between the top 3 and the rest has become too much. With so many factors of unpredictability already eliminated (reliability, danger) it would be very refreshing if there was at least the slightest chance for a midfield team to score a podium. I know the possibility of a one team dominance is inherent to F1’s structure but it’s also the responsibility of the FIA to create a more level playing field so we can see some good racing. It could be a lot better than it is now I feel. |
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Post by charleselan on May 14, 2019 12:09:53 GMT
Yes! I agree also that the Ferrari/Schumacher years were pretty dire and that as the first time I actually felt disillusioned with F1. It was also a time when MotoGP was available on Free to View live TV and if they clashed then it was no contest for me in what I viewed; MotoGP.
I did find Moseley and Ecclestone's blatant favouring of the Scuderia to be unpalatable which left a very bad taste in the mouth. One could sense the strong indignation in Ron Dennis at times, and agreed even though he wasn't the most engaging of personalities. Comes to something when one eventually cheers for a young Teflonso and the Enstone Renault team even with the odious former ski instructor at the helm!
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Post by robmarsh on May 14, 2019 14:43:26 GMT
Bugger I had a whole post about how I feel that seasons are manipulated to improve the show and I got chucked off and lost it.
Anyway I feel that 1994, 2007 and the last two seasons were dodgy. I am not a conspiracy theorist at heart but sometimes patterns appear where they shouldn't. A process in my mind brought about maybe by living in Africa. Who knows but should Ferrari suddenly turn it around and the season go down to the wire then I will think all is not right in the State of Denmark!
On a much more pleasant note it is so good to see Zandvoort back on the calendar. Congratulations René.
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Post by Carl on May 14, 2019 19:57:14 GMT
The manufacturers are in charge to the detriment of racing, which is between drivers. Would corporate boards prefer autonomous race cars?
Too often nowadays, when money talks the arena is degraded.
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