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Post by charleselan on Feb 2, 2019 16:27:46 GMT
By way of introduction I came across the linked film of the 1977 Indy 500 race while trying out a new media streaming device that allows me to have YouTube on my large screen TV. So there I am last evening scrolling through what was available on the well known film streaming service and I came across some films of 1970's Indianapolis races. Intrigued I opened the 1977 film and was extremely surprised to see that it was of great quality and very well preserved. I became entranced by the coverage which i had not seen previously; I don't think that i have ever seen that race before, it was like watching a race live. Being a bit sketchy on my Indy history i wasn't certain if this was the grand occasion of AJ winning his fourth race or not. One thing i found hugely frustrating was the fact that not once did any announcer/commentator mention the name of the chassis the drivers were using; so there i was trying to identify each one and on more than one occasion completely forgetting the make. How could I have forgotten about such as the Lightening or Wildcat; but clearly identified AJ's Coyote and Al Snr's Parnelli. Anyway a fantastic race run in extremely hot conditions which affected many drivers including long time race leader and the very unlucky Gordy Johncock in George Bignotti's Wildcat, who really seems to suffer. An interesting fact in this race was the statistic that only four drivers who raced that day were under 30 years of age, and many including AJ & Gordy were over 40; the oldest being Lloyd Ruby at 50 years of age. Makes a mockery of the recently held idea that a guy in his mid 30's is old and passed it. I am currently half way through the 1978 event and that is equally brilliant, so more of that anon. Gordon Johncock's Wildcat  A.J. Foyt's Coyote  |
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Post by Carl on Feb 2, 2019 17:26:09 GMT
John Charles, Great post! I miss the days when many chassis designs, often creatively different, would compete for honors, never more than at the crown jewel event, the Indy 500.
A.J. Foyt was masterful on ovals of any size or surface, but never that interested in road racing. Dan Gurney (and possibly Henry Ford II) somehow inspired Foyt to embrace the challenges of LeMans, the one time he did well turning left and right. His Coyotes were always inspired and, almost without exception, beautiful designs with great aerodynamics. Cheers, Carl |
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Post by chrisb on Feb 3, 2019 10:02:24 GMT
great post, JC, from1963 until the ? of Tony George this great series was on a par and at times a far better series than F1, it was such a brilliant series to follow, but the demise was sad, I think it started when one started losing the manufacturers like Coyote and Eagle and you had March or Reynard dominating the numbers, but brilliant memories
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Post by charleselan on Feb 3, 2019 13:43:12 GMT
Absolutely agree Chris, it was a fantastic series during those years. AJ really was in his element on ovals Carl. Strangely I do not think that I had ever heard him speak before and was surprised at how light his voice was; I had expected a big gruff vocal that would have fitted his profile. Interesting to note that the Coyote and Wildcat were very similar in design, obviously down to the fact that George Bignotti was involved with both, having been with Foyt before setting up his own team. I wonder if he deliberately chose the name of Wildcat as it bested the Coyote. A bit like Suzuki's Hayabusa over Honda's Blackbird  . |
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Post by Carl on Feb 20, 2019 0:43:02 GMT
Absolutely agree Chris, it was a fantastic series during those years. AJ really was in his element on ovals Carl. Strangely I do not think that I had ever heard him speak before and was surprised at how light his voice was; I had expected a big gruff vocal that would have fitted his profile. Interesting to note that the Coyote and Wildcat were very similar in design, obviously down to the fact that George Bignotti was involved with both, having been with Foyt before setting up his own team. I wonder if he deliberately chose the name of Wildcat as it bested the Coyote. A bit like Suzuki's Hayabusa over Honda's Blackbird . John Charles, Your observation about A.J. Foyt's voice has stayed with me. He truly had two sides to his character: soft spoken and polite, blushing around women, a shyness that reflects his rural Texas upbringing. But on any oval track he was fierce and combative, even in pit lane as an owner, as Arie Luyendyck learned when he rightly claimed to have won at Texas Motor Speedway in 1997 after Foyt's driver had erroneously been declared the winner.
I was always awed by Foyt the driver (maybe the all time best on ovals), but never by the man. As ornery and combative as his father, even in his 80s he seems stuck somewhere in adolescence. When Jim Clark first came to Indianapolis, Foyt was one of those who sounded alarms about funny cars (green ones!), but he soon recognized Clark's great talent and, when Jimmy approached to shake Foyt's hand after a second victory in 1964, his great character.
Cheers, Carl
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Post by chrisb on Feb 20, 2019 5:37:17 GMT
Carl, I have always had a lot of respect for AJ, in one respect he defined an era that lasted an awful long time, hard, and as far as I know fair, he seemed to garner an awful lot of respect from his peers as a driver, add to this there are some wonderful photos of AJ with Jimmy and Dan et al, but there seemed an awful lot of respect between AJ and Jimmy, not just as racers but as human beings, I seem to remember AJ being critical of Graham, Jackie and a few others but never of Jimmy,
as a team owner I did wonder what it would have been like for a driver, I mean your boss is a legend, he's hard, takes no bull, know's every 'reason' for not succeeding and is popular, did any of his drivers [or dare to?] comment on AJ the boss?
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Post by Carl on Feb 20, 2019 17:15:11 GMT
Carl, I have always had a lot of respect for AJ, in one respect he defined an era that lasted an awful long time, hard, and as far as I know fair, he seemed to garner an awful lot of respect from his peers as a driver, add to this there are some wonderful photos of AJ with Jimmy and Dan et al, but there seemed an awful lot of respect between AJ and Jimmy, not just as racers but as human beings, I seem to remember AJ being critical of Graham, Jackie and a few others but never of Jimmy, as a team owner I did wonder what it would have been like for a driver, I mean your boss is a legend, he's hard, takes no bull, know's every 'reason' for not succeeding and is popular, did any of his drivers [or dare to?] comment on AJ the boss? Chris, There may have been, and they could have been based on Foyt's always irascible, sometimes irrational behavior, but I don't recall any. Maybe discretion, for a driver, is also the better part of continued employment. A.J. Foyt has always been difficult at best and of all the great drivers, the least likely for a pleasant afternoon.
Cheers, Carl
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Post by chrisb on Feb 21, 2019 7:32:39 GMT
Carl, he's the Grandpappy of grumpiness - a club I am proud to belong to, grumpy old men - except I started early as did AJ apparently
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Post by Carl on Feb 21, 2019 17:09:05 GMT
Carl, he's the Grandpappy of grumpiness - a club I am proud to belong to, grumpy old men - except I started early as did AJ apparently Chris, Although often misconstrued, grumpiness is close to saintliness... 
Cheers (in moderation), Carl
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Post by charleselan on Jan 7, 2021 17:32:56 GMT
Oh! Goodness me I have just read that Pat Patrick has passed away, so sad to hear that as he was one of the great team owners.
It seems that we are loosing people every day at the moment.
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Post by chrisb on Jan 8, 2021 12:15:57 GMT
Yes I too saw that John, it really is sad to hear of so many of us are passing on, rest in peace Pat,
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Post by mikael on Feb 4, 2021 20:41:16 GMT
We have talked a great deal about how Formula One cars have grown in size "beyond all limits". Now, due to a contact on Linkedin, a small film from the 1996 Indycar season popped up, and it struck me how large those cars were back then, 25 years ago. But of course, they were also very wide, so they didn't in any way seem "too long", as present day F1 - they were just large, and - probably - quite harmonic in their proportions. Still, large cars indeed!
Just a "stray thought" ...
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Post by charleselan on Feb 5, 2021 11:34:16 GMT
Interesting Mikael.
As I result I attempted to do some research into the 1996 CART cars specs and all I could find was the details of the 1996 Penske PC24 which I have placed below. I do think that they Wikipedia site have got these incorrect however as the dimensions for wheelbase and track make no sense at all as written. I believe that those in inches should be in millimetres. and those in mm should inches.
Category CART IndyCar
Constructor Penske.
Designer(s) Nigel Bennett
Predecessor Penske PC-24
Successor Penske PC-26
Technical specifications[1]
Chassis Carbon-fiber monocoque
Length 4,973 in (126,314 mm)
Axle track Front: 1,730 in (43,942 mm)
Rear: 1,630 in (41,402 mm)
Wheelbase 2,972 in (75,489 mm)
Engine Mercedes-Benz IC 108C 3.43 L(3,430 cc; 209 cu in) V8, vee angle 72 degrees, 2 valves per cylinder, pushrod system single turbocharged Mid-engined, longitudinally mounted
Transmission 6-speed manual
Weight 703 kg (1,550 lb)
If I am correct it would make the wheelbase a shade under three metres, so how does that compare with a current F1 car?
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Post by mikael on Feb 6, 2021 9:53:47 GMT
JC,
yes, I must admit that it seems to be an "illusion" that the Indycars were so large, because they actually were a good deal smaller than the contemporary F1 cars. The F1 cars are now close to 6m in overall length (5.7 m, specifically) and with a wheelbase of close to 4m (3726mm in 2019, and likely a bit more in 2020/21). Also, the '96 Indycars were slightly below 2m in width. The F1 are exactly on the 2m-limit.
1996 Penske 2020 Mercedes-AMG
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Post by charleselan on Feb 6, 2021 13:15:44 GMT
That would be the case Mikael, deceptively large for the CART cars of 1996 but with well over one metre shorter in wheelbase length.
I would say that the CART cars of this period were really good looking cars for the more "modern" era, very well balanced in appearance.
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