|
|
Post by Carl on Jan 19, 2019 0:12:46 GMT
I've watched portions of the first two Formula E events and the series has been improved. There's no bizarre changing of cars halfway through, but things still seem strange, the cars sounding like a coven of banshees near to exhaustion but still able to wail en masse.
There are some excellent drivers castaway from other series. An unretired Felipe Massa was near the back throughout the Marrakesh event, as were Gary Paffett and Stoffel Vandoorne. Outstanding were Sam Bird, Robin Frijns, Jean-Eric Vergne, Alexander Sims, Antonio Felix da Costa and race winner Jerome D'Ambrosio.
The racing is fierce and closely competitive. Like Formula One, Formula E has its gimmicks, the latest being a drive through kilowatt boosting "Attack Mode" area that, if carefully planned, retains position and provides 12% more power for several minutes. No more strange than drag reduction zones.
Team Penske and Andretti Motorsport have teams, and a serious looking Toto Woolf was there to support wife Susie, team principal of the Venturi Team and, perhaps as rumored, to assure that her chastity belt was securely in place with randy Piquets about.
The announcers on Fox Sports Channel are very good, Steve Matchett providing an overview for Bob Varsha, Dario Franchitti, Jack Nicholls, and reporter Nicki Shields.
The more I have seen, the less bizarre it seems, but I still prefer internal combustion engines. I would love to have a comparison with Formula 3 on the same circuit.
|
|
|
|
Post by mikael on Jan 19, 2019 5:32:32 GMT
But traditionally, by a formula car was meant an open-wheeler. The Formula E cars of 2019 look more like prototypes (say, open Le Mans cars) than formula cars.
And 270 bhp (in race mode; max. power is 335 bhp) to 900 kg - it's not something that will ... blow your socks off ... But of course, this is something that will get better and better.
Are they really running on standard "road-going" tyres? It seems to be the case (judging from their appearance). If so, that's interesting!
|
|
|
|
Post by chrisb on Jan 19, 2019 6:42:54 GMT
I too have watched the Marrakesh race, somehow managing to miss the Saudi one, now, how could that have possibly happened....and I like Marrakesh as a place but whilst ions better than previous years and competitive it was no Express, in fact I am surprised they didn't play CSNY whilst racing, but that may have been a bit subtle, They look better, but my word Mikael without the enveloping bodywork they would look a whole lot more rosie, the commentators are good, the one with the North American accent I liked a lot and Dario is always worth listening to, it seems funny but years ago the Scots dominated the racing now they are dominating the commentary boxes, and doing a fabulous job with it, and then there are the drivers, I have always rated Sam Bird and never quite understood where his career stalled and Jean- Eric amongst others far worthier in F1 than a lot of their richer counterparts, overtaking is fun and I quite like this 12% boost thing as it feels more tactical than the blunt instrument called DRS , so with a few major exceptions F1 et al could learn a great deal from FEeeeeeeee - being the noise, arghhh- screaming banshees are on strike as their thunder has been stolen by FEeeee, how and what you could change about the noise I don't know but please, the grunt, an extra 100bhp at both stages wouldn't go amiss and the circuits -I would love to see these cars race at Donington, or Rheims or the Nurburgring, Zandvoort, Estoril, in fact most of the abandoned F1 circuits in Europe, maybe even Long Beach, but these concrete jungles they create aren't what I look for as interesting,
don't know but it does feel as if at last FEeeeee is starting to go in a better direction |
|
|
|
Post by René on Jan 19, 2019 11:47:22 GMT
Carl, that is a bold move to start a Formula 'Eek' thread on RRT! At least you put it in the Lower Formulae section!  But why not, no sense to live in denial. The world is changing rapidly and so will racing. I have not watched it for a while to be honest but have tried a couple of races before. They didn't spark my enthusiasm as the cars are too slow and kinda look(ed) like toy cars. But the new cars do look better and after reading your post I have decided to give it another go. I will support Robin Frijns as he is from the same city as me. Another super talent who's career stalled somehow.  |
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Jan 19, 2019 17:43:07 GMT
Although I agree that a Formula Car should be open-wheeled, the literal meaning of formula is the extensive set of mandated design specifications in a given series. Our preferred open wheel design, as Mikael makes clear, is more tradition than definitive. But that doesn't alter the fact that they indeed appear to be open cockpit prototypes.  Chris, the announcer with a North American accent you like is Bob Varsha, one of the best.
Rene, I tuned in partly in desperation because no other series has started. The series has improved, but doubts remain that
anyone sleeping would ever wake up!
Cheers, Carl
|
|
|
|
Post by René on Jan 19, 2019 18:40:20 GMT
Although I agree that a Formula Car should be open-wheeled, the literal meaning of formula is the extensive set of mandated design specifications in a given series. Our preferred open wheel design, as Mikael makes clear, is more tradition than definitive. But that doesn't alter the fact that they indeed appear to be open cockpit prototypes. Chris, the announcer with a North American accent you like is Bob Varsha, one of the best.
Rene, I tuned in partly in desperation because no other series has started. The series has improved, but doubts remain that
anyone sleeping would ever wake up!
Cheers, Carl
Carl, the fact that you tuned in in desperation only tells me that you are a passionate racing fan! I will give it another try though. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2019 7:41:55 GMT
Great work Carl, thanks for starting this thread.
I've been taking an interest in Formula E for the past few seasons, and agree that these new cars and Season 5 is off to an excellent start.
Having a single car and better battery capacity has been a huge improvement, as power management (saving) has been far less evident.
They have got a lot of things right, tyre wear and grading is not an issue (there is only one tyre, it lasts the whole race, and doesn't have to be pampered), the aero is about minimising drag rather than maximising downforce, so they can follow nose to tail and it not lose performance, they seem to have struck a good balance between the spec elements of the series and the prototype parts - the bits of information I've seen about power train design and development, and powertrain management sounds like they are really making rapid progress.
Limiting the scope for development, and the costs has been a real draw for manufacturers, so the quality of the teams and drivers in the series has grown rapidly.
Taking an interest is also greatly helped by fact the series has free to air coverage, and races in exotic places, and as others have said, an excellent and informed commentary team (though for me Jack Nichols is tainted by his 'fanboy' attitude when he was with the BBC Radio5 Live team, he also used to slag off FE). There are also some very good podcasts covering the series.
Lots to enjoy, and I'm pleased to find a number of the RRT are similarly interested - Happy Daze ;-)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2019 7:52:10 GMT
But traditionally, by a formula car was meant an open-wheeler. The Formula E cars of 2019 look more like prototypes (say, open Le Mans cars) than formula cars. Hi Mikael, Personally I'm glad to see that FE had taken the sensible decision to partially cover the wheels. I get irritated by all the grumbling about how complex the aerodynamics in F1 have become, and the adverse effects that has on racing. Most of the complexity and effects are, at their core, due to having to deal with the consequences of having open wheels on such fast cars. Partially covering the wheels like in FE or Sports cars could resolve a lot of the 'ill's' that affect F1. |
|
|
|
Post by mikael on Jan 20, 2019 9:31:18 GMT
Partially covering the wheels like in FE or Sports cars could resolve a lot of the 'ill's' that affect F1. It's an interesting thought, Jim. Yes, thinking about it, LMP1 cars, for example, are certainly not padded up with vortex generators and other small winglets, which really are used only to cure ills. (This is the case also on aircraft, where they are used to divert the flow around the landing gear, etc.) LMP1 designers are able to get the aerodynamics right from the start, apparently, without the need to resort to "patchwork". |
|
|
|
Post by charleselan on Jan 20, 2019 15:58:52 GMT
Another great new thread Carl, and some wonderful comments from all who have contributed so far.
I have watched quite a few Formula Eeeee races from the outset, but I find it hard to remain engaged, or more to the point find it hard to watch throughout, it just does not compel me to do so for reasons that are difficult to define.
I am a fan of piston engined machines, period. The sound of the electric motor powered car just seems unreal, might as well have man/woman powered pedal vehicles to be honest. The technology is obviously of interest, but I have grave reservations about all this electric is the future business, for it isn't as clean ecologically as is claimed.
With regard to closed bodywork, can anyone really think that the current LMP vehicles are attractive? To me they are an abomination, only surpassed by F1 cars with all of the "paper sculpture" add-ons and that hideous "toilet seat".
One thing that FE does have however is good racing for reasons well expressed by Jim; maybe other formula's should look carefully at this aspect. One more thing, the reason why FE is not on permanent circuits is due to the fact that it would look most unimpressive on those wide-open spaces, and I think the agenda is to feature it in urban areas for reasons that the major manufacturers wish to highlight their false green operandi.
|
|
|
|
Post by mikael on Jan 21, 2019 8:30:01 GMT
With regard to closed bodywork, can anyone really think that the current LMP vehicles are attractive? To me they are an abomination, only surpassed by F1 cars with all of the "paper sculpture" add-ons and that hideous "toilet seat". JC, I agree that the LMP cars are anything but pretty, but judged from the teardrop-shaped driver's compartments, they appear to be aerodynamically very efficient. It is as if the old drawings for the "Schlörwagen" of the late 30's have been dug up again (first photo below). The driver's compartments of the latest LMP1 cars look a bit like scaled-down versions of this "Schlörwagen", placed on low, wide platforms. It isn't pretty, but (I guess) it's almost as good as it gets regarding low drag. (The short video film about the aerodynamics of the Schlörwagen (below) is quite interesting.)   |
|
|
|
Post by charleselan on Jan 21, 2019 16:20:38 GMT
With regard to closed bodywork, can anyone really think that the current LMP vehicles are attractive? To me they are an abomination, only surpassed by F1 cars with all of the "paper sculpture" add-ons and that hideous "toilet seat". JC, I agree that the LMP cars are anything but pretty, but judged from the teardrop-shaped driver's compartments, they appear to be aerodynamically very efficient. It is as if the old drawings for the "Schlörwagen" of the late 30's have been dug up again (first photo below). The driver's compartments of the latest LMP1 cars look a bit like scaled-down versions of this "Schlörwagen", placed on low, wide platforms. It isn't pretty, but (I guess) it's almost as good as it gets regarding low drag. (The short video film about the aerodynamics of the Schlörwagen (below) is quite interesting.) That is a fascinating film Mikael, and I have to admit that I was not familiar with the Schlörwagen. It looks far better in side view, not quite so attractive from the front, however it pre-dates most, if not all, other aerodynamic shaped cars. It is interesting to note that its shape was very like that adopted by the later WW2 aircraft canopies. From memory I think it must have been the early 1990's 3.5 litre Group "C" cars that began to use the closed cockpit shapes that are so universal in the current LMP cars. As you suggest very aerodynamic and low drag, I wonder how long it will be for F1 cars to have similar . I also understand that the flat platform covers a very efficient chassis that has very high levels of downforce, one just has to see those things corner to appreciate that aspect. |
|
|
|
Post by René on Jan 21, 2019 16:55:34 GMT
But traditionally, by a formula car was meant an open-wheeler. The Formula E cars of 2019 look more like prototypes (say, open Le Mans cars) than formula cars. Hi Mikael, Personally I'm glad to see that FE had taken the sensible decision to partially cover the wheels. I get irritated by all the grumbling about how complex the aerodynamics in F1 have become, and the adverse effects that has on racing. Most of the complexity and effects are, at their core, due to having to deal with the consequences of having open wheels on such fast cars. Partially covering the wheels like in FE or Sports cars could resolve a lot of the 'ill's' that affect F1.
I think you have a point there Jim. On the one hand it goes against my 'purist' heart but on the other hand, F1 should never stand still and a 1970's F1 car looks nothing like a 1950's F1 car so there is no defined image what a Grand Prix car should look like.
While discussing the introduction of the Halo a while back (on MS) I used an image of a Michel Vaillant F1 car made by Jean Graton in 1978. A comic tale about what F1 would look like in the far future based on the cars of 1978. In some aspects quite visionary!
Here are a few of his drawings.
©® Graton Editeur
|
|
|
|
Post by mikael on Jan 23, 2019 7:39:25 GMT
Adrian Newey's future vision "Red Bull X2010" (designed for PlayStation!) might perhaps really be "on the right track", then ...?
P.S. If F1 were (became) this fast it would be easy to look through one's fingers at the sparsity of overtakes ...!
|
|
|
|
Post by charleselan on Jan 23, 2019 16:29:02 GMT
In many ways it looks as though Adrian Newey was inspired by those glorious graphics posted by René, the similarities even though decades apart are very apparent.
I know we have had this discussion before but I would far rather have the canopy than that hideous "toilet seat" which continues to offend me, and always will.
|
|
