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Post by Jamie on Feb 8, 2019 7:59:17 GMT
Ah yes, David Thieme wasn’t it, he was ‘colourful’ as you say.
And I completely agree with your comments re the current cars......the latest generation are way way too big in general.
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Post by mikael on Feb 8, 2019 11:52:02 GMT
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Post by René on Feb 8, 2019 15:40:56 GMT
the Haas is a good colour scheme, shame about so much of it, and I mean so much, it just looks so huge, unwieldy and with bits stuck on, I do so want to enjoy F1 but every-time I look at these things I groan, Jean-Pierre Van Rossem was the extrovert who passed away in December and was described as a criminal, stock market guru, economist, politician etc, according to Wikipedia, sums up a lot of politicians doesn't it? sounds like the start of an interesting thread Jamie, sponsors and their 'er foibles? the power they welded, the corruption some were involved in, their extravagance and their sheer personalities, the guy from Essex petroleum, AJS tyres who became owner, the Japanese sponsor who ended up in prison, the Italian one who was similar, when I get some time this may be an interesting subject. David Thieme, Jean-Pierre van Rossem and William Storey. They look like ZZ Top together!     |
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Post by Jamie on Feb 8, 2019 16:34:22 GMT
😂😂 gimme all your lovin.......🎸🎸
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Post by charleselan on Feb 8, 2019 17:47:48 GMT
Here is one for you guys, the only member of the trio ZZ Top who did not have a beard was Frank Beard the drummer  . The guy who took over the Onyx F1 team from Van Rossem was allegedly even more shady, and in a most unpleasant way. I also understand that Stefan Johansson went to see this guy to discuss his retainer for the new season and was told he wasn't getting any, Stef responded "well I won't be driving for you then"! |
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Post by René on Feb 8, 2019 19:03:21 GMT
😂😂 gimme all your lovin.......🎸🎸 LOL, I had the same association. And these guys are all about love, you can see that at first glance! 😂 I saw ZZ Top once live at a small festival. I was never a real fan to be honest but they were great live. An up-tempo wall of sound, no pauses and tight and solid as can be. A bit like the Ramones who I also saw live once and they were tremendous. But ZZ Top was absolutely great, a good memory! 🤘🎸🎸 |
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Post by charleselan on Feb 8, 2019 19:30:58 GMT
There is a really good episode of "Live at Daryl's Place", available on YouTube featuring Billy Gibbons. Billy also talks about playing etc and refers to a situation many years ago when he chatted with B.B.King about playing guitar. B.B. said why do you make life so hard for yourself playing with such heavy weight strings, as he always used light weight strings himself. Billy was converted and this transformed his playing, he says. Great band ZZ Top, and "Eliminator" must be one of the most iconic albums and videos of the 1980's, a fantastic driving album; and so none PC  . The Ramones were great as well René, great sound and not really punk, but just associated with the movement. |
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Post by Jamie on Feb 8, 2019 19:45:32 GMT
The Ramones - now there’s a band, must of been brilliant René.
And Eliminator is a brilliant record, I used to hear that a lot in my Dads workshop back in the day as Dad and my Uncle loved it.....I’ve very happy memories of that album.
“Everybody’s crazy bout a sharp dressed man” 🎸🎸
I used to love the hotrod in the videos as well 👍
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2019 21:17:08 GMT
Cheers Rene, BTW I don't think simple sweeping changes will be the solution. As everything that has been learned about aerodynamics isn't going to go away, and will be brought to bear no matter what the regulations. Also the reason we have so much reliance on aerodynamic downforce is that it makes putting 1000+bhp onto the road in any effective way possible. Better to embrace your inner nerd, and enjoy the technology of F1 for the fabulous thing it is. Hi Jim, I enjoyed listening to the podcast so it was not a heavy task!  And yes, I do understand F1 cannot be changed overnight and I think not everything needs to be changed. F1 has never been about close racing. If you want to see that you should watch F3 or other one make series. F1 is all about engineering excellence and driving excellence. The best drivers in the fastest cars. And I do enjoy that, still do so we agree on that. I am just not convinced by the direction they are taking (again). The front wing is becoming even wider than it is which will not help in the looks department (also important) and will not be very handy on twisty circuits. The cars are already so big. I don’t agree with you that you need all this downforce to handle 1000bhp+. They handled it in the 80s and even in the early 70s in the CanAm. Having so much horsepower with less downforce lays more emphasis on the driver’s quality which can only be good. I also think the teams have grown too big, too many people trying to take every possible uncertainty and mistake away. I know you can’t take knowledge away but you could make it more difficult for teams to get everything right. The ’NASA style’ homebases of the teams are ridiculous and bring nothing to the actual racing. It only tries to minimize human error which sterilizes the sport. Less mechanics around the car for a pitstop would also be better. A 1.8 second pitstop is impressive but we’ve seen that trick by now. I think ‘less is more’ would be a good focus point for the rule makers. Small and elegant wings, only to stabilize the car, would be a good starting point. And bring back ground effect which is way less sensitive to ‘dirty air’ so would make following other cars ‘easier’. But hey, as I said, I have no technical education so I don’t have all the answers. I am just a passionate fan hoping for a healthy Formula One and some good racing! Cheers Rene, You make many good points. We do agree that F1 should be about excellence, in all aspects - but especially engineering and drivers (though I do harbour the view that if the Team and engineering are excellent, the driver is less important - Frank Williams famously supported that view). Your comment on the size of the cars is a great observation, it is true that the cars are becoming huge, and sadly relatively heavy. We'll have to see what the 2021 regulations allow, but I understand the reasons the reasons for pushing with wing out to the width of the front track. Its all part of the challenge of overcomming the basic flaw of F1 cars, leaving the front wheels exposed. Covering them would allow much simpler and effective aerodynamics, but the historic view that Formula cars must be 'Open wheelers' rules that obvious solution out of the discussions - a very blinkered view I think, but there you go. I think that there is lots of evidence that light weight, two wheel drive cars need aerodynamic load to use high power 'effectively'. The era of high powered Can-am cars, the F1 turbo era saw the most rapid development of wings and then ground effects as the designers struggled to get that power on the road. For me those periods of rapid technical development are the most exciting of all. In Can-am Chaparral went from no wings pre-66, to a movable wing, more fixed wings, and downforce bodywork 67 & 68, Ground effects in 69, then a fan car in 1970! Freaking genius that Jim Hall. I agree to a certain extent that the teams are too big, but think that is more that some teams are too big. And while I admire what Mercedes, and previously Red Bull have been able to achieve with their overwhelming technical resources. I agree that it doesn't make for an exciting competition at the front of F1. My hopes are that LM are successful in introducing an effective cost cap, and reallocation of the payments to Teams. Limiting and balancing out the resource available to the Teams should mean that its the smartest ideas that produce the best cars, rather than the biggest budget. Then provided that the technical regulations can also be opened up, we should get back to seeing a battle of ideas and innovation in a financially sustainable F1. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2019 21:31:49 GMT
Just a thought about the blind alley of too optimized aerodynamics that F1 unfortunately has strayed into:
Imagine that the Monaco GP counted the most; for example, imagine that there were a single World Championship Final, as in karting, motorcycle speedway etc. (in the "old days" at least), always held at Monaco. Then the cars would (most surely) look very differently from how they look now. Then acceleration (both positive and negative) and "nimbleness" would be much more important than aerodynamics, and the minibus-like wheelbases would disappear like snow in the sun.
Of course that's not how the F1 World Championship is nor how it should be. But if there were more Monaco-like circuits (a bit like the Formula E street circuits maybe) along with the real, high-speed F1 circuits like Spa, Silverstone, Suzuka, etc., then the optimally designed F1 racing car might be more of a compromise(*) between nimbleness and high-speed cornering ability, as it once was. This might be a way out of the blind alley ...
[ (*) In technical jargon it's called Pareto optimality, see e.g.: So, Mikael, you're saying that if F1 were more like Formula E it would be better. It's a good point, but I suspect a controversial one in this forum ;-) |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2019 21:52:47 GMT
The first glimpse of the new season.  Nice carpet.  But the HAAS looks better than last year in this livery.  Romain is thinking: "am I back in the Lotus?".  If you have a spare 15 mins, have a look on Youtube at the 'Autosport Haas Livery Launch' it is so awkward that its almost funny. The livery does look good, though I wish they'd picked either Black and Gold, or Black and Silver and stuck with one rather than having Black, Gold and Silver - messy! |
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Post by Carl on Feb 9, 2019 0:47:45 GMT
The first glimpse of the new season. Nice carpet. But the HAAS looks better than last year in this livery. Romain is thinking: "am I back in the Lotus?". If you have a spare 15 mins, have a look on Youtube at the 'Autosport Haas Livery Launch' it is so awkward that its almost funny. The livery does look good, though I wish they'd picked either Black and Gold, or Black and Silver and stuck with one rather than having Black, Gold and Silver - messy! I saw enough awkwardness to quickly reach my yearly quota.  and I agree about the colors.
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Post by Carl on Feb 9, 2019 5:50:31 GMT
There is a really good episode of "Live at Daryl's Place", available on YouTube featuring Billy Gibbons. Billy also talks about playing etc and refers to a situation many years ago when he chatted with B.B.King about playing guitar. B.B. said why do you make life so hard for yourself playing with such heavy weight strings, as he always used light weight strings himself. Billy was converted and this transformed his playing, he says. Great band ZZ Top, and "Eliminator" must be one of the most iconic albums and videos of the 1980's, a fantastic driving album; and so none PC . The Ramones were great as well René, great sound and not really punk, but just associated with the movement. Eliminator is a drag racing term. Stock Eliminator is a class of highly modified cars in the National Hot Rod Association and Billy Gibbons loves hot rods.
The Ramones were the apotheosis of American punk, that is to say, without the cultural/political overtones of punk as originated in England. We just liked the attitude...
"Twenty twenty twenty four hours to go I wanna be sedated"
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Post by mikael on Feb 9, 2019 6:31:41 GMT
Just a thought about the blind alley of too optimized aerodynamics that F1 unfortunately has strayed into:
Imagine that the Monaco GP counted the most; for example, imagine that there were a single World Championship Final, as in karting, motorcycle speedway etc. (in the "old days" at least), always held at Monaco. Then the cars would (most surely) look very differently from how they look now. Then acceleration (both positive and negative) and "nimbleness" would be much more important than aerodynamics, and the minibus-like wheelbases would disappear like snow in the sun.
Of course that's not how the F1 World Championship is nor how it should be. But if there were more Monaco-like circuits (a bit like the Formula E street circuits maybe) along with the real, high-speed F1 circuits like Spa, Silverstone, Suzuka, etc., then the optimally designed F1 racing car might be more of a compromise(*) between nimbleness and high-speed cornering ability, as it once was. This might be a way out of the blind alley ...
[ (*) In technical jargon it's called Pareto optimality, see e.g.: So, Mikael, you're saying that if F1 were more like Formula E it would be better. It's a good point, but I suspect a controversial one in this forum ;-) Hi Jim, I'm not sure if the "Formula E model" would be the right way -- but something (i.e. track modifications) that would move the attention from aerodynamics towards "nimbleness" in a natural way, not in the form of regulations. If most Grand Prix circuits had sections with tight hairpin turns (not chicanes!) - like Monaco's Gasworks Hairpin - that would probably change, in a natural way, the present the-longer-the-wheelbase-the-better philosophy. Interesting to think about that in rally, it was always "the shorter the better". It would hardly be possible to make a center-engine car any shorter than the Lancia Stratos. The Group B cars of the early 80's were also very small and nimble, basically all of them. And so are the present "compact car"-based rally cars.  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2019 8:38:08 GMT
So, Mikael, you're saying that if F1 were more like Formula E it would be better. It's a good point, but I suspect a controversial one in this forum ;-) Hi Jim, I'm not sure if the "Formula E model" would be the right way -- but something (i.e. track modifications) that would move the attention from aerodynamics towards "nimbleness" in a natural way, not in the form of regulations. If most Grand Prix circuits had sections with tight hairpin turns (not chicanes!) - like Monaco's Gasworks Hairpin - that would probably change, in a natural way, the present the-longer-the-wheelbase-the-better philosophy. Interesting to think about that in rally, it was always "the shorter the better". It would hardly be possible to make a center-engine car any shorter than the Lancia Stratos. The Group B cars of the early 80's were also very small and nimble, basically all of them. And so are the present "compact car"-based rally cars. Hi Mikael, Yeah, I was just teasing for a reaction with the FE comment. I can see how changing the challenge would change the 'Pareto front' for the designers. (I did a bit of googling about Pareto Efficency). While I'm not sure that enforcing another set of track layout changes on the circuits is a reasonable proposition, I guess your idea is something that would lend itself to testing with simulators. So at least the track configurations that would make it advantageous to have a shorter more nimble car could be properly investigated before it was put into practice. On the otherhand the FIA don't seem to have any inhibitions about imposing car dimensions, so if the Technical Working Group thought it was a good idea, even without track changes I'm sure it would be part of the new regulations. |
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and I agree about the colors. 