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Post by mikael on Jan 29, 2019 14:03:58 GMT
JC, I've often been thinking about this fact too; yes, nearly all protypes had RHD and in addition, had the gear lever to the far right, like in the below photo of Gurney in the Ford GT40 Mk. II. This was also the case for the Porsche 917, for example, as well as for many other Porsche racing cars.
Most international circuits run clockwise, and thus, they have more right-hand turns than left-hand ones. It could be that most drivers prefer to sit to the right, then, to be better able to see the "clipping points" of the corners.
My father had a little bit of standard car competition experience (a couple of years in the little Group 2 class, 0-1000cc, in a Fiat Abarth - with LHD). It is very much "lightweight" in comparison with so many others, and very much so in comparison with GP drivers; anyway, he often said that he always liked the right-hand turns the best; he felt most comfortable when sitting in the "far corner" (of the car) in the turns. So this is in opposition to the idea just mentioned; but he might have been unusual in this respect.
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Post by chrisb on Jan 29, 2019 19:48:34 GMT
Mikael, a tear or three comes to my eyes at the excellence of your subject and photo's. brilliant, but what a contrast between the BRM and the Lotus in presentation, the Lotus was almost Dennisesque in its professionalism, whereas the BRM seemed sadly lacking,
taking your point up, Jimmy in 63 won Spa by almost 5 minutes from Bruce, and drove most of the race one-handed as the gear lever kept jumping out of gear in torrential rain, so that is racing around one of the most feared circuits that has ever existed with just your left hand doing the work? astonishing
love that photo of Dan, sheer class
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Post by charleselan on Jan 30, 2019 18:37:10 GMT
Mikael,
You may well have something with that idea, however many of the circuits in the 1960's were often road courses with no predefined corners with regard of direction. It just struck me as odd that Ferrari Prototypes of that period were all RHD, yet all of their Grand Touring cars were mostly LHD.
Going back to the gear lever position, I wonder if BRM were exclusive in having the gear lever on the left side. I haven't checked to see where the likes of Cooper and Brabham had theirs.
Chris,
I agree the Lotus cars look much tidier and pretty compared to the BRM's, however it may be that the BRM's like the Matra's were engineered rather than being exquisite pieces as per Lotus. The rivet detail on the BRM and later Matra's is so apparent, so like an aircraft, yet on the Lotus cars it hardly seems to feature, or catch the eye.
JC
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Post by Jamie on Jan 30, 2019 20:14:58 GMT
Most prototypes are biased towards a right hand drive configuration for reasons of weight distribution, with the drivers mass down to the right on what are more common right handers, weight transfer during roll is more controlled keeping the wheel cambers more stable (closer to static settings) than if the drivers weight was adding momentum to the roll moment. It’s a tiny gain of course but may as well have the drivers weight in the most optimal position if some semblance of passenger space is called for in the regulations (as per Group C). Of course given the choice it’s far better to have a centrally mounted driver with the mass positioned in line with the roll axis.
And it’s a funny thing about gear levers being on the right more often in racing cars, I personally prefer to change gear with my right hand and always enjoy this aspect of driving hire cars on the continent. Seems more natural somehow......In a sports car the gear linkage is far simpler if positioned on the right as the engine isn’t in the way when trying to get the rods back to the gearbox. An oddity was the hugely successful Jaguar XJR14 which had a left hand gear change for some strange reason? The drivers hated it!
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Post by Carl on Jan 31, 2019 5:21:01 GMT
Most prototypes are biased towards a right hand drive configuration for reasons of weight distribution, with the drivers mass down to the right on what are more common right handers, weight transfer during roll is more controlled keeping the wheel cambers more stable (closer to static settings) than if the drivers weight was adding momentum to the roll moment. It’s a tiny gain of course but may as well have the drivers weight in the most optimal position if some semblance of passenger space is called for in the regulations (as per Group C). Of course given the choice it’s far better to have a centrally mounted driver with the mass positioned in line with the roll axis. And it’s a funny thing about gear levers being on the right more often in racing cars, I personally prefer to change gear with my right hand and always enjoy this aspect of driving hire cars on the continent. Seems more natural somehow......In a sports car the gear linkage is far simpler if positioned on the right as the engine isn’t in the way when trying to get the rods back to the gearbox. An oddity was the hugely successful Jaguar XJR14 which had a left hand gear change for some strange reason? The drivers hated it! Excellent analysis, Jamie! |
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Post by charleselan on Jan 31, 2019 16:26:23 GMT
I will second that Jamie, great stuff indeed.
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Post by mikael on Feb 2, 2019 2:13:08 GMT
A very interesting presentation of the 1958 season, with some footage in colour. This is part 1 of 2. Unfortunately part 2 does not seem to be present. Hopefully it will show up.
Addendum: When seeing footage like this I cannot help thinking about how amazing the evolution was during the following decade, 1958-1968; and then, a similarly breathtaking evolution during the decade 1968-1978. Then the evolution kind of slowed down; on the surface, at least.
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Post by Jamie on Feb 2, 2019 7:22:51 GMT
A very interesting presentation of the 1958 season, with some footage in colour. This is part 1 of 2. Unfortunately part 2 does not seem to be present. Hopefully it will show up.
Addendum: When seeing footage like this I cannot help thinking about how amazing the evolution was during the following decade, 1958-1968; and then, a similarly breathtaking evolution during the decade 1968-1978. Then the evolution kind of slowed down; on the surface, at least.
I enjoyed that, thanks Mikael. Your comment is spot on regarding the era and subsequent evolution of the cars.The technical evolution over the next decade, revolution really, was incredibly fast paced. If you think about the cars in the video, fantastic as they are in their own right, and then jump forward just 10 years to the championship winning Lotus 49 bedecked in Gold Leaf sponsorship....well, it’s a night and day difference really isn’t it, yet 10 years seems to go by in the blink of an eye...... |
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Post by René on Feb 2, 2019 10:53:09 GMT
Great video, Mikael. How times have changed indeed. If you think of someone like Graham Hill for instance and the evolution he has witnessed during his career, amazing. Silverstone 1958  Silverstone 1967  Monaco 1975  |
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Post by mikael on Feb 2, 2019 12:57:53 GMT
A very nice illustration of that amazing development, René.
But when looking at the Embassy Hill of 1975, it's interesting to note that the modern blueprint was in place already then, more than 40 years ago. By 1975 the cars already look modern! So, except for the abandoned wing (ground effect) cars, for more than 40 years there have been no more real revolutions; only evolution. Who would have expected that in, say 1975, after what had been seen until then ... (Electronics have of course changed everything, but that's not exclusive to F1 - so I'd put this under evolution too, together with space-age materials.) |
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Post by chrisb on Feb 3, 2019 9:56:02 GMT
Mikael, I watched both episodes of the 1958 season with my favourite commentator, who like Murray a real bona fida military hero, Raymond Baxter always represented to me how one should commentate, I still sometimes watch the very edited highlights of the 1967 Italian GP, when according to Raymond said excitedly " and Jim Clark has done the impossible" for someone who went through what he had been through - that is praise indeed.
The 1958 season was surely one of the best and worst of motor racing that has ever been. The best as some of the racing was superb - the worst for those terrible tragedies that occurred, but great personalities and some superb driving and we had a host of real stars that so many were capable of victory, you had Stirling, Tony, Pete and Mike, Luigi and Jean what a collection of stars, just an absolute tragedy what happened to all bar Stirling and Tony,
Looking at these great pictures of Graham I would agree again Mikael, for me it was the launch of the Lotus 72 that everything has evolved from that wonderful design, ok nowadays we have appendages on appendages now which mars the look and the racing - and electronics that baffle and gimmicks that appall, but one day....
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Post by René on Jun 2, 2019 15:23:08 GMT
Here's some good old fashioned Grand Prix racing for you guys; the last laps of the 1990 Mexican Grand Prix. The battle for second is fantastic, Mansell at his best! And no DRS, only real passing!
Put the volume on 10 and enjoy the screaming sound of the V12 Ferrari and V10 Honda engines! Commentary by Murray Walker and James Hunt.
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Post by Carl on Jun 3, 2019 22:32:19 GMT
Here's some good old fashioned Grand Prix racing for you guys; the last laps of the 1990 Mexican Grand Prix. The battle for second is fantastic, Mansell at his best! And no DRS, only real passing! Put the volume on 10 and enjoy the screaming sound of the V12 Ferrari and V10 Honda engines! Commentary by Murray Walker and James Hunt. One of the all time great passes! Thanks, Rene. |
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Post by chrisb on Jun 4, 2019 4:39:56 GMT
isn't it wonderful? Mansell at his determined best,
incidentally does anyone know of a film in the making called LeMans66 with Matt Damon?
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Post by mikael on Jun 5, 2019 23:47:18 GMT
Here's some good old fashioned Grand Prix racing for you guys; the last laps of the 1990 Mexican Grand Prix. The battle for second is fantastic, Mansell at his best! And no DRS, only real passing! Put the volume on 10 and enjoy the screaming sound of the V12 Ferrari and V10 Honda engines! Commentary by Murray Walker and James Hunt. In addition to the glorious sound of V12 / V10 / V8 engines, an additional sound that one can miss from those years is the "bang!" emitted at any gearshift. This was, apparently, because the ignition was short-cut momentaneously, in order to avoid using the clutch (by gearshifts). It was not represented well on the television, but live, it sounded just fabulous! (I heard it first time at Suzuka in '96; my first live GP since Anderstorp '78. I was completely in awe!) At that time there also was a lot of blipping on the throttle by downshifts, in order to coax the gears into contact. (I imagine (believe) that those downshift throttle-blips were done electronically; any time the driver pulled the gear lever - towards a lower gear - the throttle was also activated - but I'm not sure of this. It would seem the natural way to do it, though.) (Nowadays much more delicate approaches are used, apparently, and both the "bangs" and the "blips" have disappeared. Now gearshifts sound just like by normal automatic transmission ...) Apparently the same thing was done in CART in the mid-90's; and one can actually hear it in the Youtube clip posted recently on the Motor Sport Magazine website (in the time frame 1:00 - 1:05). The clip is re-posted below.
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