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Post by René on Jun 23, 2018 22:20:03 GMT
This weekend not only the French Grand Prix but also the Indycar race at Road America, one of the best tracks in the world! A Penske front row with pole position for Josef Newgarden and Power second. Second row for Andretti Autosport with Hunter-Ray and Rossi and then Wickens and Bourdais. This should be a cracker! An hour break between the F1 race and the Indycar race. Just enough time for diner!   |
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Post by Carl on Jun 23, 2018 23:20:27 GMT
Rene,
I anticipate close racing in Elkhart Lake because passing has been greatly enhanced with the new aerodynamics! Whoever said you can't have too much downforce must have been obsessed with levers. That's a great track map, overall a beautiful guide to Road America! The track remains the same, but some of the bridges shown have been removed. Josef Newgarden's pole position time is 15 seconds faster than the 1973 record of Mark Donohue in the 1200 bhp Porsche 917-30. I hope both races are outstanding. How to choose between Wisconsin bratwurst and French saucisson? I would have one of each. To start... Cheers, Carl |
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Post by René on Jun 24, 2018 10:07:50 GMT
Rene,
I anticipate close racing in Elkhart Lake because passing has been greatly enhanced with the new aerodynamics! Whoever said you can't have too much downforce must have been obsessed with levers. That's a great track map, overall a beautiful guide to Road America! The track remains the same, but some of the bridges shown have been removed. Josef Newgarden's pole position time is 15 seconds faster than the 1973 record of Mark Donohue in the 1200 bhp Porsche 917-30. I hope both races are outstanding. How to choose between Wisconsin bratwurst and French saucisson? I would have one of each. To start... Cheers, Carl Yes looking forward to that race! Interesting comparison between Josef's and Mark's lap time. Wow, 15 seconds with less bhp, that's progress. If only Scotty could beam us up from Le Castellet to Elkhart Lake!   |
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Post by Carl on Jun 24, 2018 23:52:15 GMT
The IndyCar race was great, contests for position and daring passes just about every lap. Josef Newgarden was flawless throughout, hounded all the way by Ryan Hunter-Reay and a coming from behind Scott Dixon. There was a lot of contact and crowding but it was green flag all the way. I wish I was at Siebken's right now...wonderful steaks, great bar!
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Post by mikael on Jun 25, 2018 8:39:28 GMT
Had a look at some footage available on YouTube - a very beautiful track indeed. Not to be negative, but I find the designation of turns a bit strange. With reference to the map below, if (4) - and particularly (2) - are considered as turns, then why aren't the kinks between (11) and (12) and between (12) and (13) ? (Maybe the map gives a wrong impression?)   |
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Post by René on Jun 25, 2018 13:28:44 GMT
The IndyCar race was great, contests for position and daring passes just about every lap. Josef Newgarden was flawless throughout, hounded all the way by Ryan Hunter-Reay and a coming from behind Scott Dixon. There was a lot of contact and crowding but it was green flag all the way. I wish I was at Siebken's right now...wonderful steaks, great bar!
It is such a joy to watch a race on a track like that. Even a boring race (which it wasn't) would still be worthwhile watching just for the beautiful picture. Newgarden was in control all the way. It will remain a question what sort of race it had been with Power not retiring but it was top class racing! Interesting to hear Hunter-Reay say after the race how difficult it was to follow close behind another car, in the dirty air. So even with this aero kit this is still an issue. But obviously not as bad as in F1 as the racing was much closer. |
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Post by charleselan on Jun 25, 2018 14:37:00 GMT
I was unable to watch the race unfortunately, particularly as it was at this truly majestic race track. Surely America's finest road course, it must have been such privilege watching the Can Am and CART series race there in years gone by. It would certainly put Paul Ricard into Truer perspective.
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Post by René on Jun 25, 2018 15:56:13 GMT
I wish I was at Siebken's right now...wonderful steaks, great bar! Carl, I had a look at their website ( www.siebkens.com) and that looks like a great place indeed! Wouldn't that be the perfect place for a RRT gathering one day?  |
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Post by Carl on Jun 25, 2018 17:25:24 GMT
Rene,
We could get David Hobbs to buy a round of drinks and be in racing heaven!
Cheers, Carl
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Post by Carl on Jun 25, 2018 17:30:30 GMT
Had a look at some footage available on YouTube - a very beautiful track indeed. Not to be negative, but I find the designation of turns a bit strange. With reference to the map below, if (4) - and particularly (2) - are considered as turns, then why aren't the kinks between (11) and (12) and between (12) and (13) ? (Maybe the map gives a wrong impression?) Mikael,
The only answer is inconsistency. There's no logical reason.
Cheers, Carl
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Post by robmarsh on Jun 26, 2018 10:43:56 GMT
I really enjoyed the race and the track especially the grass right up to the edge of the track and the lack of multicoloured acres of tarmac. Very nostalgic indeed.
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Post by charleselan on Jun 26, 2018 11:17:42 GMT
The question we have to ask ourselves here is this; if modern day Indycars can race on such a wonderful circuit as this then why can't F1 vehicles do the same? Maybe it is down to the infrastructure which Carl has described above; mainly that it is in too rural a location. However that should not be a limiting factor, one just has to put ones self out more if you wish to see something truly special, well that is my opinion on the matter. It surely cannot be down to safety, for in this day and age everyones health/life should carry equal status, an Indycar drivers life is as important as an F1 driver, Ah! But of course Jean Todt does not preside over Indycar and therefore his "Nannying mentality", or is it fear of litigation, keeps things in this ever increasingly sterile environment that is F1 today. Then again we have these morons who write profuse amounts on line about how fast F1 (and other) cars have to be; however if you took one of these clowns to somewhere like Elkart Lake and sat them down to watch a 1970's F1 or 1990's CART machine in anger they wouldn't know any different from a current F1 car at Ricard or Baku! Do I make any sense  ? |
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Post by René on Jun 26, 2018 13:42:31 GMT
You make a lot of sense JC, I have been asking myself the same question over and over when watching the race at Road America.
Maybe Road America has an infrastructure problem, maybe the track is situated too remote, I don't know but I don't believe that is the issue that is nagging us.
As Rob already put it so well, F1 seems to be obsessed finding technical solutions and so-called improvements for everything! And not even speaking about the overly clean and corporate look that takes the soul away. I do corporate branding for businesses for a living so I understand the thinking behind it but they forget this is a sport that needs to keep its identity, like Wimbledon needs the same for tennis. Even Spa and Monza have lost part of their character by these developments. Too many run-off areas (even the Parabolica!) and the same bland corporate look. Just look at pictures of Monza of years gone by and they breath more atmosphere, mainly by the advertising around the track that was Italian for a large part (Fiat, Lancia, Agip, Segafredo, you name it) which made it unique. That is all gone now. To some it may seem not important but I think it is.
Road America is a proper race track. With grass and gravel next to the track. It looks better, it looks faster and with the walls and guardrails not too far away, it also looks more scary which is a good thing for a racetrack.
As you said, it is fear of litigation and an obsession with being professional. It's changing the sport beyond recognition.
Try to imagine F1 cars (yes, even the modern monsters) racing there. Wouldn't that be fantastic?
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Post by robmarsh on Jun 26, 2018 16:13:37 GMT
Great posts René and Charles. Whilst I don't believe anybody in their right mind wants to see a sportsman get hurt they like to see that there is an element of danger in what they do because it is that element of being so superior to what the average Joe can do that makes it so compelling. It is the walking on the "tightrope" between triumph and disaster that gets the adrenaline flowing. Watching the Red Arrows doing their display is enthralling because of the closeness of the aircraft at speed means a disaster is but an air pocket away. Skill at it's highest.
It is the same with F1. I like Baku because the speed and the confines of the track make the job much more difficult than if the same track was laid out on a vast concrete car park like radio control car racing. That is why in the 50s and 60s a win at Spa meant much more than a victory at Silverstone. The penalties for making a mistake were much higher and so the better drivers, who could drive fast but with precision, like Clark or Amon at Charade in 1972, triumphed there ahead of those that only went fast on circuits where their lack of precision would not punish them. The throttle pedal works both ways and the drivers should be the judge of that, not the engineers, race directors or Jean Todt.
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Post by charleselan on Jul 12, 2020 11:51:57 GMT
Last night I sat down to watch the round from Road America, what a truly fabulous track (as we have all commented previously, but needs repetition). The race was superb with some truly outstanding racing and drivers; and the cars just fantastic.
The race was dominated by an outstanding "Rookie" J-P Montoya in the Ganassi Reynard Honda until the gearbox issues that had made his drive all the more remarkable finally gave up the ghost and Christian Fittipaldi finally won his first CART race in the Newman/Hass Swift Ford from team-mate the ever impressive Michael Andretti.
Yes! Sorry guys I was watching the full length race from 1999 and boy was it enjoyable, the cars sounding and looking amazing.
Interestingly after a first corner pile up caused by an undistinguished Castro Neves, all of the drivers involved were able to restart the race after the red flag with their spare cars, remember that phenomena. Of course we can't have that today due to cost saving regulations, the only ones to suffer of course with that ruling are the fans.
It appears that all of the 1999 CART races are available in their entirety on YouTube at present and make for fantastic viewing.
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