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Post by mikael on May 6, 2018 13:25:02 GMT
Lucio, sorry for missing to read your post before posting myself; we agree in overall opinion.
Addendum to my own post. Of course F1 was too dangerous for many years. Just wished to state that I think the safety measures have "gone overboard" and become "too much".
Addendum 2: In Danish we have the often used idiom "den gyldne middelvej", which translates to "the golden mean". It refers to that, for virtually anything good in life, it's important that there isn't too little of it, but it's just as important that there isn't too much.
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Post by René on May 6, 2018 14:02:23 GMT
“There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.” ― Ernest Hemingway Times have changed of course but the essence of this quote is still valid. As Lucio so elonquently wrote, performing under the pressure of possible injury when making a mistake does make a difference. At the same time no sain person would want to go back to the times when we had several fatalities each year. I agree with Mikael that safety is very important but it has gone overboard, certainly with the massive run-off areas at some tracks. I was at Spa yesterday and when looking at the double left hander at Pouhon I was thinking why not put a 2 meter wide grass strip next to the track. It would still be safe with the tarmac run-off but you would probably spin if you ran off the track. But at the same time Spa also proved racing can still be dangerous with Pietro Fittipaldi's crash... Edit: picture added of the 'double gauche' at Spa (yesterday ). Still a majestic corner though.
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Post by robmarsh on May 6, 2018 15:13:07 GMT
When I raced karts in Zim, we had a fast corner called the sweep, which only the gearbox karts used. I suppose it was taken around 100 kph, maybe a bit more. There was no runoff whatsover and if you got it badly wrong then you were lucky if you didn't hit a tree or the marshal tower. Most guys didn't take it flat, I know I didn't. One guy tried and was very lucky not to hurt himself, his balls were ten times bigger than his brains but they soon shrunk back to normal. However, had there been 20 odd metres of run off demarcated by a painted line, I am sure we would have all taken it flat out.
That is why Verstappen drives like he does, he hasn't had big crash like Alonso has.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2018 19:33:22 GMT
The point about motorbike racing is entirely relevant. Riders have no serious protection, they really risk their limbs at each corner and unfortunately riders do succumb on occasion. On the other hand, presumably for the higher media impact and because cars can be made safer than bikes, F1 has been sanitised to the point that it is a different sport with respect to decades ago.
I don’t complain about increased safety, but we must be aware the implications the change has had. For example, would Verstappen have driven as he did in Baku last week if he knew that a coming together would have had serious physical consequences on either driver? Has the increased safety changed the ethics of the sport? I think it has, it’s plain to see. Do this has given us the opportunity to see better racing skills on display? Personally, I don’t think so, quite the contrary. We had Ascari, Fangio and Moss, Clark and Surtees, Fittipaldi and Peterson, Lauda and Prost, Prost and Senna. Different, but entirely effective and legitimate ways to skin the same cat.
Can you now discern better driving skills than that of those people above? Now what do we have? At the sharp end I see mostly obstruction tactics, because they know there are no physical consequences for their actions - Schumacher, Vettel and Webber, Hamilton and Rosberg, Verstappen, Maldonado – you name it. Would they behave the same at 200mph with a concrete barrier at the edge of the track, as at Indy?
Mind, I am not saying now they are worse drivers, the basic talent requirements to get to the top are always the same, but nobody can convince me the "skills and abilities" on display now are superior to what it was when cars were much less safer and with much less grip.
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Post by chrisb on May 7, 2018 18:17:39 GMT
nice post Lucio, having just gotten back from an overcrowded Oulton Park, with the biggest crowd i have ever seen, this was for a national bike championship [BSB] i got there about 09:30 with i estimate 5 miles of traffic waiting to get in, two things spring to mind, one as you speak of Lucio, the safety I was up at the Old Hall a scary corner if there ever has been and 4 riders crashed there, one because he had come in too quick and had swept out on the grass and of course passenger status followed, but whilst the bike looked a bit secondhand the chap got up, dusted himself down and re-appeared later for the next race, if you make a mistake you get punished. not so in F1 [apart from street circuits] and you don't get any blocking
secondly i know it was bank holiday and very warm, but i did wonder if so many people have despaired of car racing and joined us in motorbikes, it is just so much more exciting, but then I will go back to Oulton in August for the Gold Cup and that if the F2 cars are there is pretty exhilarating but then these 200bhp projectiles are hard to compete with
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