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Post by mikael on Aug 27, 2020 22:11:16 GMT
I was browsing through some photos on my (oldish) desktop computer, and came across the photo below, from Suzuka 2018. (My friend had rushed back just when the race had finished, to stay with family living in the area. I had no rush in going back to the hotel (where I stayed for yet another night), so I was just walking around by myself in the open areas, enjoying to be able to just take my time ...)
There's something magical about a racetrack in the dusk, after a race. Frankenheimer thought so too, apparently; and in such a situation I always come to think of his closure of "Grand Prix", where "Pete Aron" wanders about on the home-straight of Monza. A truly brilliant movie-ending.
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Post by Carl on Aug 28, 2020 5:02:18 GMT
I was browsing through some photos on my (oldish) desktop computer, and came across the photo below, from Suzuka 2018. (My friend had rushed back just when the race had finished, to stay with family living in the area. I had no rush in going back to the hotel (where I stayed for yet another night), so I was just walking around by myself in the open areas, enjoying to be able to just take my time ...)
There's something magical about a racetrack in the dusk, after a race. Frankenheimer thought so too, apparently; and in such a situation I always come to think of his closure of "Grand Prix", where "Pete Aron" wanders about on the home-straight of Monza. A truly brilliant movie-ending.
Mikael, An excellent post encapsulating the romance of motor racing we all feel at times, as you did at Suzuka and Frankenheimer did at Monza.
Well said!
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Post by chrisb on Aug 28, 2020 9:30:40 GMT
Mikael, wonderful, there really is something evocative about a circuit post race, years gone by I used to stay behind as you would see sights others dreamt of, my clearest recollections being Silverstone post a F3 race, must have been mid/late seventies and at the bar meeting Derek wWarwick and seeing Nelson with his entourage- the other one was Brands, but that was more to do with being unable to get out of a car park for 5 hours, that was until I drove through a hedge, that was fun!
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Post by mikael on Feb 20, 2022 11:01:21 GMT
I came across a couple of very nice amateur recordings on YouTube which really convey some of fascination of Grand Prix racing, like the incredible cornering speeds.
Interestingly, the professional producers (F1™) are, in their never-ceasing hunt after "action", masters in missing - or filtering - out these small, most fascinating aspects of GP racing. Repeating what has been said before, I know, but such details were captured so well in "Grand Prix" (1966); and even better in the Ford-movie "Nine Days in Summer" (1967), as well as in "Le Mans" (1971) (but not well at all in the recent "Le Mans '66"). A study of the first three movies should be compulsory "homework" for F1-TV producers!
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Post by charleselan on Feb 20, 2022 13:12:03 GMT
I might refer you to the films of Barry Price done in the 1980's that I uploaded a few weeks ago, as they really show you what it is like to be a spectator at a race track. Some of the camera angles are superb and give a whole different perspective of on track action.
Where one can be amazed at the current cars cornering speeds to my way of thinking it does nothing for the spectacle of watching a racing car and driver in action. Actually seeing a car with more power than it can handle being driven at 10 tenths by a real ace driver is what is missing these days. Getting a car in a real drift or power slide is now looked upon as wasteful and so it maybe is in the current machines, but this is to the detriment of the sport. I know what I would rather see and that would be Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 or Ronnie Peterson in the Lotus 72E in full on power oversteer.
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Post by mikael on Feb 20, 2022 13:22:22 GMT
I might refer you to the films of Barry Price done in the 1980's that I uploaded a few weeks ago ... Thank you, JC, I will certainly try to find it. (I have been a bit on-and-off (and mostly off) here recently, due to a pileup of deadlines :-D )
Best regards,
M.
Edit/addition: JC, I understand now that it is the footage from the 1986 season that you are referring to. Yes, I agree; that is certainly no less spectacular to watch. Taking the surplus of power and the engine sound of those cars into consideration, quite on the contrary. Sadly, I never managed to see a Grand Prix (live) during the 80's. My record is as follows: I saw one in the 70's (1978), one in the 90's (1996), one in the 00's (2005), and then quite many from 2010 on.
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Post by charleselan on Feb 21, 2022 11:51:29 GMT
I might refer you to the films of Barry Price done in the 1980's that I uploaded a few weeks ago ... Thank you, JC, I will certainly try to find it. (I have been a bit on-and-off (and mostly off) here recently, due to a pileup of deadlines :-D )
Best regards,
M.
Edit/addition: JC, I understand now that it is the footage from the 1986 season that you are referring to. Yes, I agree; that is certainly no less spectacular to watch. Taking the surplus of power and the engine sound of those cars into consideration, quite on the contrary. Sadly, I never managed to see a Grand Prix (live) during the 80's. My record is as follows: I saw one in the 70's (1978), one in the 90's (1996), one in the 00's (2005), and then quite many from 2010 on.
Nothing worse than a build up of deadlines Mikael, I can understand it taking a priority at present. 1985/6 just a spectacular period in Grand prix racing, raw power and some truly brilliant drivers, also such variety in car concept as well. My first experience of a car race was the Friday Qualifying for the British GP at Silverstone and what an impression that left on me. Although I had followed motor racing very closely as a child from the late 1950's my parents were not interested in going, Motocross and Scrambling were their interest, so I had to gain my driving licence first before going. That 1969 Grand Prix had so much to take in with Lotus; McLaren and Matra experimenting with 4WD cars and of course the terrific on track rivalry between Jackie Stewart and Jochen Rindt. I was also watching from the outside of the original Woodcote when JYS clipped a loose curb stone and caused him to spin with the resultant front wheel/suspension damage, it was a quick spin too on that high speed corner. |
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Post by chrisb on Feb 21, 2022 14:25:56 GMT
I always though Indycars 'got it right' in the 80's and 90's with the camera work, you really got a sense of speed I felt, especially with little Al and Mikey at each other, loved that period just before that dreadful split.
to me the 'turbo' years were brilliant, in fact we had 4 decades of incredible racing and ok I liked the V10's it didn't have quite the same magic after the 90's, but as John mentions 1985/6 were so spectacular, and I consider myself extremely fortunate to have seen so many races in that decade - including F2 and Group C and B come to that _ must delve through my trunk of motor racing programmes as I must confess to not remembering all that I attended.
My first experience was with a very considerate elder brother who took me to Brands in 64/65 and also to Crystal Palace but memory is such I can't exactly remember what year that was but I suspect either 65 or 66 -
I think what stays more in the mind is who I saw racing and there are only a few of my heroes that I had never seen [Ascari and Pete Collins] but the people I have seen from Fangio onwards is the most humbling of experiences - gosh I do wish there were some of them still around today
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Post by Carl on Feb 21, 2022 18:04:18 GMT
My first experience of a car race was the Friday Qualifying for the British GP at Silverstone and what an impression that left on me. Although I had followed motor racing very closely as a child from the late 1950's my parents were not interested in going, Motocross and Scrambling were their interest, so I had to gain my driving licence first before going. That 1969 Grand Prix had so much to take in with Lotus; McLaren and Matra experimenting with 4WD cars and of course the terrific on track rivalry between Jackie Stewart and Jochen Rindt. I was also watching from the outside of the original Woodcote when JYS clipped a loose curb stone and caused him to spin with the resultant front wheel/suspension damage, it was a quick spin too on that high speed corner. You certainly dove into the deep end of the pool at your very first event.  I still remember the race report in Road & Track written by Rob Walker and describing the magnificent duel between Stewart and Rindt. What a great race! |
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Post by Carl on Feb 21, 2022 22:22:11 GMT
I might refer you to the films of Barry Price done in the 1980's that I uploaded a few weeks ago ... Sadly, I never managed to see a Grand Prix (live) during the 80's. My record is as follows: I saw one in the 70's (1978), one in the 90's (1996), one in the 00's (2005), and then quite many from 2010 on.
Mikael, 1978 was an eventful year with many cool designs, major tragedy, and more than one seismic innovation. What race did you attend?
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Post by René on Feb 22, 2022 18:14:58 GMT
Sadly, I never managed to see a Grand Prix (live) during the 80's. My record is as follows: I saw one in the 70's (1978), one in the 90's (1996), one in the 00's (2005), and then quite many from 2010 on.
Mikael, 1978 was an eventful year with many cool designs, major tragedy, and more than one seismic innovation. What race did you attend?
The one with the fan car! 
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Post by mikael on Feb 22, 2022 21:45:56 GMT
Carl,
Yes indeed, as René indicates, it was the Swedish Grand Prix, at the Anderstorp Circuit. So, yes, I can boast of having seen the Brabham fan car in action ... My father and I went "over there", with one of his colleagues (and that colleague's brother-in-law). I was 13 at the time. I remember we were very impressed by the driving of Niki Lauda, and the way he put pressure on Mario Andretti, without fully realizing the "unfair advantage" that the fan car gave him.
I remember also that, shortly after that GP, Lauda managed to annoy (or perhaps even insult) a good number of Scandinavian race fans by stating that the Swedish GP was not among the most important ones, as, "there are hardly any spectators up there". Later, after experiencing the huge crowds at Suzuka (and the surreal long lines up to the Suzuka train station, etc.), I realized that he was probably right; indeed, not that many people made their way up to Anderstorp.
A small episode I will never forget: The mentioned colleague (of my father) had a Volvo 343, which we went in. That car had a step-less (continuous) transmission, affectionately known at the time as a "rubber band transmission". A curious feature of that transmission system was that, the car could go as fast backwards as it could go forwards! Now, we went very early in the morning, the talking in the car went well, and suddenly ... our driver (the said colleague) missed an exit on the highway. We went quite a distance before this was realized, Early Sunday morning, in "deep Sweden" - not a car was in sight; so the driver decided to reverse on the highway, rather than to waste further time in going to the next exit. And better to get it over with, in a hurry, before other cars show up! So, the driver put "pedal to the metal" - in reverse. As mentioned, the Volvo 343 could go as fast backwards as it could go forwards; so I guess we went something like 160 km/h - backwards. Of course, this is extremely dangerous, as a car is not stable when going backwards. Our driver was actually an amateur rally driver; and this didn't bother him that much. I remember how impressed I was! I also remember that my father wasn't particularly impressed :-D (Yet he was never comfortable unless he was at the steering wheel himself ...) Yes, some episodes stay in memory forever :-)
Best,
Mikael
A 1977 Volvo 343.
The Volvo 343, with "rubber band transmission", was popular - and successful - in European rally cross at the time (in the latter part of the 70's).
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Post by René on Feb 23, 2022 10:17:05 GMT
Wonderful story Mikael! 160 in reverse is insane!  The stepless transmisson or continuously variable transmission (CVT) or Variomatic was in fact a Dutch invention by Hub van Doorne at DAF in the 1950s. The first Volvo that used the CVT was a copy of the original DAF.
The DAF
The Volvo |
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Post by Carl on Feb 23, 2022 17:57:14 GMT
Carl,
Yes indeed, as René indicates, it was the Swedish Grand Prix, at the Anderstorp Circuit. So, yes, I can boast of having seen the Brabham fan car in action ... My father and I went "over there", with one of his colleagues (and that colleague's brother-in-law). I was 13 at the time. I remember we were very impressed by the driving of Niki Lauda, and the way he put pressure on Mario Andretti, without fully realizing the "unfair advantage" that the fan car gave him.
I remember also that, shortly after that GP, Lauda managed to annoy (or perhaps even insult) a good number of Scandinavian race fans by stating that the Swedish GP was not among the most important ones, as, "there are hardly any spectators up there". Later, after experiencing the huge crowds at Suzuka (and the surreal long lines up to the Suzuka train station, etc.), I realized that he was probably right; indeed, not that many people made their way up to Anderstorp.
A small episode I will never forget: The mentioned colleague (of my father) had a Volvo 343, which we went in. That car had a step-less (continuous) transmission, affectionately known at the time as a "rubber band transmission". A curious feature of that transmission system was that, the car could go as fast backwards as it could go forwards! Now, we went very early in the morning, the talking in the car went well, and suddenly ... our driver (the said colleague) missed an exit on the highway. We went quite a distance before this was realized, Early Sunday morning, in "deep Sweden" - not a car was in sight; so the driver decided to reverse on the highway, rather than to waste further time in going to the next exit. And better to get it over with, in a hurry, before other cars show up! So, the driver put "pedal to the metal" - in reverse. As mentioned, the Volvo 343 could go as fast backwards as it could go forwards; so I guess we went something like 160 km/h - backwards. Of course, this is extremely dangerous, as a car is not stable when going backwards. Our driver was actually an amateur rally driver; and this didn't bother him that much. I remember how impressed I was! I also remember that my father wasn't particularly impressed :-D (Yet he was never comfortable unless he was at the steering wheel himself ...) Yes, some episodes stay in memory forever :-)
Best,
Mikael
A 1977 Volvo 343.
Those are great memories, Mikael, of both the race and getting there! When your father's friend was reversing so fast, were you looking more at his technique behind the wheel or enjoying the speed through the back window? 
Cheers, Carl
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Post by mikael on Feb 24, 2022 22:01:57 GMT
Hi Carl,
this particular incident has stayed in memory, probably because of the "shock factor", but also because my dad and I talked and laughed about it many times over the years. And admittedly, the speed is a guess (or an estimate). Still, it is certain that the engine was fully "stretched out" in reverse; and, as mentioned, it is a fact that this particular car could go backwards just as fast as it could go forwards. But I don't recall all details; it's quite some time ago, after all. Come summer, it will be 44 years! It's quite a part of a lifetime ... Best,
Mikael
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I still remember the race report in Road & Track written by Rob Walker and describing the magnificent duel between Stewart and Rindt. What a great race!
