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Post by robmarsh on Nov 1, 2017 15:41:38 GMT
Evening Gentlemen
I would like your views on the proposed engine regulations for 2021 and what you think they will do to F1. There are a couple of things I don't understand eg
"The MGU-H will be removed and a more powerful MGU-K will take its place, with drivers able to manually deploy the MGU-K's power over a number of laps or save kinetic energy for later use. " It sounds like a good thing to me and is supposed to make the engines cheaper. Your views
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Post by René on Nov 1, 2017 17:03:19 GMT
Rob, that is an interesting subject. I have to do some reading first about it to give a well founded opinion. First impressions are not bad though. The engines need to be cheaper and less complex.
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Post by Jamie on Nov 1, 2017 17:32:39 GMT
First glance seems to be quite good and pretty much as expected, save I was expecting twin turbos.
Removal of the heat recovery unit should make the sound better and if they start to run up to 15,000 rpm because the fuel flow allows / necessitates this to make peak power then they'll sound quite nice indeed. I expect the simplification of the hybrid systems and spec parts will make it more attractive for engine builders such as Cosworth and AER etc.....could this lead to an Aston Martin engine in conjunction with Cossie??
All in all a positive step I think but, as Rene says, I need to read up on it a bit more I think.
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Post by charleselan on Nov 1, 2017 18:55:55 GMT
Without wishing to be disingenuous Rob it is a bit above me now and I am supposed to be technically literate. To me these power units as I believe one has to call them are absurd in a sporting environment, just ask the majority of the fans. The powers that be have given no thought to what the fans want, it is a case of this is what we are going to do so suck it up.
Tonto Wolff has just said in an interview with there BBC that the teams aren't happy with these new proposals, well of course he would wouldn't he, as he sits in a position with the most dominant PU and car combination there is and wants to keep it that way. He will of course allow Ferrari to come and play but will still hold the upper hand at the end of a season, it is all smoke and mirrors.
The very reason MotoGP is gaining ground hand over fist is because the riders are still like gladiators and not wrapped up in cotton wool; also the engines used are "proper" i/c units that make an outrageous noise. Any doubts then just listen to those two Ducati's last Sunday when they were running together, absolutely flaming glorious.
By the way the most entertaining comments on the now lamentable Motorsport forum are Ray's inspirational ones that make me truly proud of him. even if the lad is a bit OTT at times  .
John Charles
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Post by robmarsh on Nov 2, 2017 8:44:47 GMT
The technical side is very interesting and I think it is not advertised enough because the teams are so secretive. This obsession with secrecy is one of the things that has eaten away at F1s appeal along with the elitism encouraged by that odious little man Ecclestone. Personally although I find the technical side of the engines very interesting and I can see how they help with making road cars more effective etc I would prefer it if it was in world endurance racing. There is a more visual tie in to road cars. Formula 1 cars are out and out racing cars and therefore should have out and out racing engines that everyone knows will not find its way into one's roadcar in any matter or form. This insistence that Formula 1 improves the breed is a con by the racing guys to get the manufacturers to shell out money so they can have carbon fibre toilet seats in their motor homes (Eddie Jordan). Formula 1 never improved the taste of Camel or Marlboro. So to sum up the new engine proposal might be better than the current but to my mind they should just get away from anything to do with green technology and go back to out and out racing engines, less aero and too much power for the chassis. This has all been said before but the powers that be refuse to listen. F1 is in a bubble and has lost grip with the rest of the world. There need to be less races on old school circuits not more on street circuits that are difficult to watch even on TV because of 90 degree bends and concrete walls. I don't think any of the current people at the top of F1 really want to change-they are just paying lip service to it. I agree wholeheartedly with your comments re Moto GP Charles. Your nephew was really doing well at one stage.
WRT to Ray he does have some good things to say he just doesn't know when to stop saying them. I wish he wouldn't always make out that he is the only one who knows everything. You have probably forgotten more than he has learnt but never come across that way.
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Post by charleselan on Nov 2, 2017 10:43:45 GMT
A very good post Rob which covers all that is wrong with F1 today. The "bubble" bit is spot on, as all who are involved are in that very thing and it is none too transparent.
Do not get me wrong I am very interested in new technology and hybrid cars in particular, but for road application. I had my first experience of a Toyota Hybrid back in September when i went out in a new one recently purchased by some friends back in the UK. Such a strange feeling being driven around a town with no engine noise what so ever as it was running on battery power.
Something that few have picked up on with regard to the current F1 cars is the potentially dangerous environment that they actually create. Watching the Torro Rosso mechanics working on Pierre Gasley's car last weekend it was commented that a mechanic stands by with an insulted pole and hook to drag another mechanic working on the car should he get shocked. Also the drivers have it drilled into them that they must never make contact with the ground when touching the car, that is why they all keep out of the vehicle when it breaks down. This is absolutely absurd in my opinion and should be addressed with immediate effect, but will not be until some poor guy gets electrocuted. Interestingly how does this fit in with the blasted "halo", no body can leap from a car with those hideous things in place can they!
Yes! Ray does go on and very often ruins his own point of view. Incidentally all of his current knowledge is down to him spending most of his day surfing every conceivable site, goodness knows how he manages to get any work done, and with such renumeration as he apparently gets.
John Charles
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Post by René on Nov 2, 2017 11:25:21 GMT
Both very good posts gentlemen. Really not much to add besides the fact I agree with Rob that the road relevance card should not be played with Formula 1 but with endurance racing.
JC, I have been an Alfa Romeo driver for over two decades. Lovely cars that drive really well and give a nice driver experience. But since three years my company car is a hybrid Lexus. And although it was a big 'mental' switch at first, the Lexus is a fantastic car both in the city where it mainly runs on battery power and therefore super quiet and on the motorway. As you say, for road cars these new technologies are wonderful and the way to go.
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Post by charleselan on Nov 2, 2017 12:12:05 GMT
René,
I have always liked and respected Toyota, I had a 16valve Corolla GTi back in the 1980's, a superb little car and one of the best I have ever owned.
As an Alfa man what do you think of the "new" Stelvio?
JC
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Post by René on Nov 2, 2017 13:45:06 GMT
JC,
I am not really a SUV fan but this is a very good looking car. I wouldn't mind having one but if I had the choice, I would prefer the Giulia.
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Post by charleselan on Nov 2, 2017 14:01:50 GMT
René,
I wasn't either but have warmed to them in recent times due to my chosen life style, although I still do not have one currently. I think the Stelvio looks really good in the TV ads I have viewed recently. However the Giulia is a wonderful thing and could easily find a place in my garage should funds permit.
JC
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Post by Carl on Nov 3, 2017 4:31:17 GMT
It takes nerve to wade in among this august collection of technical experts but no courage at all to agree with all of your comments.
In IndyCar, they have something similar to Rob's description of the MGU-K unit manually controlled by drivers. Each driver has about two minutes total of extra turbo boost [called push to pass] available at any time during a race, providing 50-60 additional horsepower for passing. Of course, the driver in front may also use the system to defend. Because of the extreme high speeds on big oval tracks, it has so far been used only on road courses.
I nominate Bernie Ecclestone as the first to be accidentally electrocuted.
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Post by chrisb on Nov 3, 2017 6:03:22 GMT
brilliant Carl, I second that nomination! and totally agree with your opening comment
so if they have the push to overtake button does that means the dreaded drs system is being dropped?
as an honest hypocrite I am all for eco friendly power units/ engines, but I do love my V8 but then I won't fly
i find the engine talk a little perplexing, i don't know what the point FIA/Liberty are trying to make, is it to be seen as eco friendly, but then increase the number of fly-away circuits so the pollution footprint is actually much greater and the emissions from F1 almost an irrelevance?
when I listen to a cosworth V8 or the Matra, Ferrari etc V12 - those are the sounds I want to hear, even the 80's turbo's sounded so much better than today's things, but gentleman what is the point of new engines if one doesn't look at the aero package, the tyres and most importantly the circuits, i feel it is pointless to do one thing and not the other three
the electrical charge thing seems scary to me, watching the Hulk clamber out wasn't a good advert
as a driver of an SUV - having forsaken the coupe due to age and gravity and having seen the beautiful Alfa Stelvio in Europe must admit to being tempted, but then i'd probably need to sell the house first to pay for it.
with regards to our friend Ray, whose posts I generally enjoy there is a sense he really does feel let down by F1 and especially what happened at Canada this year and is venting his, and to a certain degree mine, frustrations with F1 and their bubble,
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Post by robmarsh on Nov 3, 2017 9:33:35 GMT
I would love either the Guilia or the Stelvio. I have always wanted an Alfa but the boss has firmly put her foot down-not because she doesn't like them but because you tend to lose too much money on resale here in SA. We have a little Audi A1 1.4 TFSI which I absolutely adore. Always been a sucker for fast hatchbacks.
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Post by René on Nov 3, 2017 10:29:54 GMT
I nominate Bernie Ecclestone as the first to be accidentally electrocuted. Ha ha! Quote of the week! Fantastic Carl.   |
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Post by charleselan on Nov 3, 2017 11:08:42 GMT
I nominate Bernie Ecclestone as the first to be accidentally electrocuted. Ha ha! Quote of the week! Fantastic Carl.
Edit
P.S. Of course he would want to charge for the service......... sorry chaps I could not resist  . |
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